From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::138]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E839C0032; Wed, 8 Nov 2023 02:06:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4466781E18; Wed, 8 Nov 2023 02:06:34 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp1.osuosl.org 4466781E18 Authentication-Results: smtp1.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key, unprotected) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=fm3 header.b=psMivGwV X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lrb_76EjbMQl; Wed, 8 Nov 2023 02:06:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA17F81E17; Wed, 8 Nov 2023 02:06:29 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp1.osuosl.org AA17F81E17 Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1803D5C0244; Tue, 7 Nov 2023 21:06:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 07 Nov 2023 21:06:26 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject :subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t=1699409186; x=1699495586; bh=m8hAOp/I5cHob 2JO72ZDepROHKIMHS6o4orstUjV5ys=; b=psMivGwV2yVOqJ1OVHC3ifh505AiE rK3JfSN5ddqCtfHfO/VGE3jlIeBeS2IAHGB02IGMf3LQ1ZXZoFQAvCZZ1Wm4atHp WYsyXH+GWkOrj3kHmA0ANezfdqoqgFQ8lpEtf11mbsCfZvkZB39K1ulT0GqEjo9d n+VNwLomAIQwAfI98P42qYsoGqniXe/yj+wzGO/F1H/6vXIbB/AK7YSWKPV98JTI zh1Sy5/EGF1fBiOg56oAPNDdUxbh+ACVTG23QQApSWaUii0RsvQBXO6F9CaLG8BX 2VhfuoUtAYiy2lc0zweVG2R2Fc85ErksEA3hXNmjLoFa0JPVS7tNIuzjA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedruddukedggeduucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepfffhvfevuffkfhggtggujgesghdtreertddtvdenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgv rhcuvfhougguuceophgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtth gvrhhnpeelvdellefftddukeduffejgfefjeeuheeileeftdfgteduteeggeevueethfej tdenucffohhmrghinhepphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiii gvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehpvghtvgesphgvthgvrhhtohguugdr ohhrgh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 7 Nov 2023 21:06:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4A3BF5F81E; Wed, 8 Nov 2023 02:06:23 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2023 02:06:23 +0000 From: Peter Todd To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="9WGNm2G3b0rE/pXf" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Cc: security@ariard.me, "lightning-dev\\\\@lists.linuxfoundation.org" Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] OP_Expire and Coinbase-Like Behavior: Making HTLCs Safer by Letting Transactions Expire Safely X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2023 02:06:34 -0000 --9WGNm2G3b0rE/pXf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Nov 08, 2023 at 12:51:31AM +0000, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > In a post-package relay world, I think this is possible. And that > > replacement cycling attacks are breaking future dynamic fee-bumping of > > pre-signed transactions concerns me a lot. >=20 > Well the answer here is pretty clear: v3 package relay with anchors is br= oken. BTW a subtlety of this that may not be obvious is that in v3 package relay, with zero value outputs, the outputs must be spent in the same package. Thus _unlike_ existing anchor-using transactions, there would be only one anchor output on the commitment transaction. In existing anchor output transactions, this type of attack wouldn't work as when broadcasting the transaction, Alice would be spending her anchor outpu= t, which Bob can't double spend. But that doesn't work in v3, which intends to limit UTXO growth by requiring that anchors be spent in the same package. T= hus unlike existing anchor outputs, an anchor would be truly a OP_1 output with= out a signature, and thus belong to either Alice nor Bob uniquely. --=20 https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org --9WGNm2G3b0rE/pXf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE0RcYcKRzsEwFZ3N5Lly11TVRLzcFAmVK7RMACgkQLly11TVR LzcQsxAAvUg0l4KsfH+VGx/aRXDTBcBjrDD4YFVv2rLSrMnxFKNpGahPUjD0512N xYy97nKf3Vb9V5pzvYrVX5oIXdGtEhv+uSR0BsxPC26H7mJBJMIIvh+37FiyfKnq SSAlEKbrvQBhCHt6mn5B4U0UOfvIeBpj+Ha5aUg8BiCeXXw9hjuFmd1FEoDPChGF TZGyLfNwldMLKPsy7a+j7QtTvQMTRaS/WIosNH7pUTlRn2NQMadf5z4/GG5CIS4a RMpOZ/IkSiIZUmyYDHRpZH+TeKoQOKOdKiPatN8S1nOE0/vuTdVfjUDA/44rcJZs y5RCa16VunPU5YaZvEg4USq+cFWvWPrXFj0wryTDwrW+ie9AlB6OoZtKIANCrWF6 TmQuP4yt2HH3IMsHp57HQESSsPbYo19gNFzUN8toNR4Iy9A+m+to15I5X7eI1wpI zccAqKV95ZiXUNm3RVkNhAWhVGWCzAw/bGRDb/tCH8n+Ym3YocjNe2PJD8jUVW9P 9Jd5M9SPoP4UTGxUx4cU7vXKsTHKZ4raaw4eEzupJoMPL4TSo2nVq4jTiqRLNbgy 17iOJQ5noq2CBiQzpfk4vunfkhk54cUlw3tBbuIq/uVx9HfQ/nPT0NkSqlp4ODat Y/J8i/L8xVqYATZQBw1U9LEDhtcWgS8Ki1duLlAWHKO7CdmLdxY= =Dq80 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9WGNm2G3b0rE/pXf--