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[202.12.124.148]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id af79cd13be357-7c76ea77267si17941985a.7.2025.04.04.09.42.50 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:42:50 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 202.12.124.148 as permitted sender) client-ip=202.12.124.148; Received: from phl-compute-01.internal (phl-compute-01.phl.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailfout.stl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB4161140114; Fri, 4 Apr 2025 12:42:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-01 ([10.202.2.162]) by phl-compute-01.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 04 Apr 2025 12:42:49 -0400 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefvddrtddtgdduleduleehucetufdoteggodetrf dotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggv pdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpih gvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhepfffhvfevuffkfhggtggujgesghdtreertddt vdenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgvrhcuvfhougguuceophgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurd horhhgqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeehkeeliedtvdehkedtffduffevhffhjeduueef leefffejleegheefgfehueegfeenucffohhmrghinhephihouhhtuhdrsggvpdgrrhgthh hivhgvrdhorhhgpdifrghsrggsihifrghllhgvthdrihhopdhgihhthhhusgdrtghomhdp phgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmh epmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehpvghtvgesphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrghdpnhgspghrtghp thhtohepvddpmhhouggvpehsmhhtphhouhhtpdhrtghpthhtohepsghithgtohhinhguvg hvsehgohhoghhlvghgrhhouhhpshdrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhopehnohhthhhinhhgmhhu tghhseifohhosghlihhnghdrohhrgh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri, 4 Apr 2025 12:42:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DF3529FD7B; Fri, 4 Apr 2025 16:42:45 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2025 16:42:45 +0000 From: Peter Todd To: Yuval Kogman Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Reiterating centralized coinjoin (Wasabi & Samourai) deanonymization attacks Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="YJ7HE4+SDr+13CAL" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: pete@petertodd.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=Rime9Spv; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 202.12.124.148 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) --YJ7HE4+SDr+13CAL Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 10:39:10PM +0100, Yuval Kogman wrote: > - https://youtu.be/v952Fd1vmOs?t=2073 - here, months after launching > his service, he fails to disclose until pressed to elaborate, then > admits he's collecting revenues and casually misrepresents the > "optimistic" behavior of wasabi (which a bug) as a "little known > secret" that justifies his appropriation of excess funds, which under > the zksnacks coordinator went to the mining fees (thereby bolstering > sybil resistance, not undermining it). For the record, I checked the archive.org and github history of the Wasabi Wallet docs themselves, and since at least Nov 23rd 2024 (archive.org) or possible Oct 10th 2024 (git commit), they've clearly stated that leftovers go to the coordinator: "In rare cases the output decomposition contains change (maximum of 10,000 sats per coinjoin), this leftover goes to the coordinator. This is because creating such small amounts would harm privacy and ends up being more expensive than just forfeiting it." (note: this whole passage is highlighted) https://web.archive.org/web/20241123035844/https://docs.wasabiwallet.io/using-wasabi/CoinJoin.html#fees https://github.com/WalletWasabi/WasabiDoc/commit/a1f2f474f282918f2e1626a01351ac8f1b9c43cf The git commit that introduced that language is PGP-signed by Github as of Nov 9th 2024. -- https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. 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To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/Z_AMBe7CnGX_Rm14%40petertodd.org. --YJ7HE4+SDr+13CAL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE0RcYcKRzsEwFZ3N5Lly11TVRLzcFAmfwC/oACgkQLly11TVR Lzf/4g/8DqXtS/c5yyGVDx+W3Al+vbYPNxKkhtwPNyhJZ3diLWekbsBSXM+LkxK2 nsr5nLA9vNFk0FPq/vBIrh77/nWKZwXCWC/gAwJwDTM6EX0HXpBqkL3/j4V1ToyN AGsYd1XAO66cJJVpILw+Ps58TQ0LZON4ZKEpNnRb5gZK+LfMNEPsthICUmfet96k +uZfjEu+se6nr4YTN64i3XV0JEQxD2RkcIoS66Du0OXSA/LewP/MhoXjvRk9iVTg VeCA+jiFPWB4S1FOOIIV03XvEqaJZAdNT8SSMuEck2DGERIFUagh2aeZo8ZcbHTK NGatgZDJgvslobYKsZinaqGEPvdPO5PhYLJ2ZwJ4jKH/SBOSwjwU74PX2zgGQFJD 1DMtPsrV8+y79KJ2Nnk3xEucSSN/kp6PepCjJHoNRsVgPC/q8Z4fZHUSr6DWqLUk SyFRl/+QtzYZCT+L6fRfJlL0bAfC5+L3B9uREOJCt5PygxeLkA8vXiCpQvftIfo0 eHk2VR6kmo6qr4nfej9YINFcRHixfT1lr+M9Wum6YjpqYGU3A6InfBtPKotmnKOH H1zLM9dJb3btlX5X+zfpl3z2JCY4Ym18lu4TkpRPhqAfY5MFk18VmRen7pxkENbM S7AEvM9eGW4Z5bRcY/zj+F9MPD7NHiBtD/Rza6C+FvLgG3yQxVQ= =PdQE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --YJ7HE4+SDr+13CAL--