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[206.125.169.165]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e9e14a558f8ab-3d6de7e1654si2453345ab.2.2025.04.04.11.43.37 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 04 Apr 2025 11:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of freedom@reardencode.com designates 206.125.169.165 as permitted sender) client-ip=206.125.169.165; Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2025 11:43:31 -0700 From: Brandon Black To: Ethan Heilman Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Post Quantum Signatures and Scaling Bitcoin Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Linux 6.6.36 x86_64 X-Original-Sender: freedom@reardencode.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@reardencode.com header.s=mail header.b=fnE9WVh7; spf=pass (google.com: domain of freedom@reardencode.com designates 206.125.169.165 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freedom@reardencode.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=reardencode.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Hi Ethan, Interesting idea for bringing PQ cryptography to bitcoin without sacrificing throughput or IBD cost. On 2025-04-04 (Fri) at 12:29:46 -0400, Ethan Heilman wrote: > Such a system would present scaling issues for the mempool because > prior to aggregation and compression, these transactions would be 2kb > to 100kb in size and there would be a lot more of them. It is likely > parties producing large numbers of transactions would want to > pre-aggregate and compress them in one big many input, many output > transactions. Aggregating prior to the miner may have privacy benefits > but also scalability benefits as it would enable cut-throughs and very > cheap consolidation transactions. ~87/txns a second does not include > these additional scalability benefits. I'm curious your thoughts on the long term incentive changes for node runners of such a scheme. Currently, running a node in full relay vs. blocks only isn't a significant resource difference. Only the smallest of nodes operate in blocks only mode afaik. With a scheme like this, the delta would expand significantly, potentially weakening the transaction relay network. Such a disjunction between the cost of transaction verification during relay vs. during block validation also represents a further externality imposed on node runners which is not compensated (as node runners do not gain fees for verifying and relaying transactions, and their primary benefit comes in the form of finality by verifying blocks). All the best, -- --Brandon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/Z_AoU94vMDskLJ4Z%40console.