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[64.147.123.147]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h13-20020a0561023d8d00b0047309ffd6fesi263326vsv.2.2024.03.28.12.16.30 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 28 Mar 2024 12:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 64.147.123.147 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.147.123.147; Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailfout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6E261C00074; Thu, 28 Mar 2024 15:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 28 Mar 2024 15:16:30 -0400 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvledrudduledguddvtdcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpeffhffvvefukfhfgggtuggjsehgtderredttddvnecuhfhrohhmpefrvght vghrucfvohguugcuoehpvghtvgesphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrgheqnecuggftrfgrth htvghrnhepheefjeegfeegffetteevvedugfejkeegleduueehffeuhfejgeefheeguefg keejnecuffhomhgrihhnpegsihhtshhlohhgrdgtohhmpdhpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorh hgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepphgv thgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhg X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Thu, 28 Mar 2024 15:16:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EB0945F87B; Thu, 28 Mar 2024 19:16:22 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 19:16:22 +0000 From: Peter Todd To: Antoine Riard Cc: Steve Lee , "David A. Harding" , bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] A Free-Relay Attack Exploiting RBF Rule #6 Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mz1UYETDl4+YGTjN" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: pete@petertodd.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=vhtgtI8J; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 64.147.123.147 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) --mz1UYETDl4+YGTjN Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 06:34:42PM +0000, Antoine Riard wrote: > Hi Steve, > > > He literally cites a reference to an example. > > About CVE-2017-12842, the report of Sergio Demian Lerner available here > gives more information on the reporting process of the vulnerability: > https://bitslog.com/2018/06/09/leaf-node-weakness-in-bitcoin-merkle-tree-design/ > > I'll attract attention on the following words of Sergio himself: > > "and as I said in the first paragraph, the weakness was already known by > some developers. But I still don't understand (1) why so many people knew > about it but underestimated it badly, (2) why there was no attempt to fix > it." I do not consider CVE-2017-12842 to be serious. Indeed, I'm skeptical that we should even fix it with a fork. SPV validation is very sketchy, and the amount of work and money required to trigger CVE-2017-12842 is probably as or more expensive than simply creating fake blocks. Sergio's RSK Bridge contract being vulnerable to it just indicates it was a reckless design. > I believe in the present "free-relay" bandwidth wasting, letting a minimal > 2-weeks delay would have been more reasonable. Security list members might > be in flight travels or at conferences, or under other operational > constraints and domain experts in the area of transaction-relay might not > be available to give full-fledged answers. Even if you have private > contacts of someone, don't rush them to get an answer when it can be > midnight in their time zones and they're recovering from jet lags. To be clear, in this particular case I had specific, insider, knowledge that the relevant people had in fact seen my report and had already decided to dismiss it. This isn't a typical case where you're emailing some random company and don't have any contacts. I personally knew prior to publication that the relevant people had been given a fair chance to comment, had chosen not to, and I would likely receive no response at all. Which is really annoying as I have my own deadlines for (paid) things this research was relevant to: much more useful to me to get the issue published publicly, so I can get actual comments from people like yourself, and move forward with my work. I'm not going to say anything further on how I knew this, because I'm not about to put up people who have been co-operating with me to the risk of harassment from people like Harding and others; I'm not very popular right now with many of the Bitcoin Core people working on the mempool code. Anyway, I think the lesson learned here is it's probably not worth bothering with a disclosure process at all for this type of issue. It just created a bunch of distracting political drama when simply publishing this exploit variation immediately probably would not have. -- https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. 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