From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Delivery-date: Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:29:05 -0700 Received: from mail-vk1-f189.google.com ([209.85.221.189]) by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rrHij-0007IR-1t for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:29:05 -0700 Received: by mail-vk1-f189.google.com with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-4d42e8a7245sf1168824e0c.0 for ; Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:29:04 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1711978138; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=yovQLW4tBcfwWRtTxOZHmKXUfT2LwZ65nRZ1JvDGCzVvngcU5EXmTzs8hmnVlF8enE gg0S3TdEHqvOY3V1YHc3AT/KZioJFCvqgZoMe2Bp/2zrQMChBpOBbIbcjNs8wdgK65L+ zBSFgmN9P+bJXwIjGpiAdPeNvDzh/QPBQnNkNhUqD/btRvQxpPEqZKmFAc7qH1cceOnQ OhMMxR4gi8UJG7jMgVN5zbvmYcCoKNBYPHdrqPUZRrMhCRybt/DnWXRsyysv4P5RzFle 2SuSMce3+Ey5JfE8tBa4Ovt5zjJBNeQ/JByNN4qQx26/JnbVsGA/YelqJSLKDcgu7Vqi qMIg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:in-reply-to:content-disposition :mime-version:references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:sender :dkim-signature; bh=5toGSTfQBBicQtsthEws0IS/jdOCTUDOEiOpXvNSQ24=; fh=3BTaNMTXEJNs85aiyZhy8FcNStxZOavSSA0/Cc2v0Qs=; b=YVABG5lOkW5NaGf4jeK4ohKEs00XDUyrSca3hZfyQAkVLBzd6vjis5tzWl8LGFI2rm gfRAUUXamEDfuVcfI8ET8lCZMPeVjzLI+k/gpgrtLMpwGpr2gePpfp/HXggrOjC8oPYs Dnyge0r/Y4AaiEWJKYHFstO1uS/I875fqhDxcFJXl6cFWHEZqhXAPc7ug8POxuSlnvTm II3e1/QGqtzBPWGQpe2UuAUAj9sVCRzwclr1GLugpjvWJZtE5X+4dsucc6BIzFotK1TT 62cJ3G2R9P+FFtQbd+wSfaYUPc2N4Xb3nDcAN5WQO3A9JEusdrllhUdQkeA+C+2nMDk7 56rA==; darn=gnusha.org ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@mail.wpsoftware.net header.s=default header.b=dE3MPDaV; spf=pass (google.com: domain of apoelstra@wpsoftware.net designates 66.183.0.205 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=apoelstra@wpsoftware.net; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=wpsoftware.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1711978138; x=1712582938; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version :references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:sender:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=5toGSTfQBBicQtsthEws0IS/jdOCTUDOEiOpXvNSQ24=; b=RHz6GsDvpcFuoVhYAmZXmf45KpZYGsFMyGuU6jVZmTbhI7L0qzNf2LMAG1aZpYO0+B mB4EzMQFP6DIApJx8E2u3B/NfSvK7PC5N+ppzihE9Vfq4TxlMe1OOpop+0zBbksjyla0 nqvv9WeUqxg0mRumu5rJbkU76QUS63QHBgPeMDY8BPh5wfAIsjFTafIzzb++PNPj6C2X EtjiKGBqkO5yQYdBh2OLwZd6z3nc33D88Txms4q23LxcAzTq1SHUav2iD60tfPcS2MZV ly90qx5zHujJH8kQ89u1Bx5mhHKWDxXtEn8mOeix8fgi4F3BRpSZ0fzSO+qqqJ1os62b 0hmQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1711978138; x=1712582938; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version :references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-beenthere :x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=5toGSTfQBBicQtsthEws0IS/jdOCTUDOEiOpXvNSQ24=; b=E3lMsrF5RH497HVymkn+iUYO/qnuuRVCAWQYPgUu4uYmLgfvqjUxxgrBMOGTtIiYU5 pU6AQz64PCu6Aclfj38YERirXUY97FrJnpyculOCXcQ+osDbp3DTnsyUE16pkEuUyZxv 4zzzw+GHZnj0gVAfsBX8fwvcQBx6ooNokX7evdBuqXbDwkVyMKvMdIDX/jYi4Bv/SYqm SWOp/kLtJW2ARICt37H5mNYv5gOAqLdHNiPlhMc0cch1qB9QN/3uJcKY9Gnu3+yBXgcD 3EqomMBnoC4o6PZtQEXRq5vTragSbRz+oMT0mxlZi4ETEUmQZYXb1RxFPU59B9yZXQuI N0aQ== Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCW7gLD6dZZvFVGwjV3MhZxgzy+aNwVZFCj2656WGGOAutiyZPbrwnIqNDAOOuAFReGI7nZQooiX4Kh45UZR8QP/SsdKLuE= X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxg60cgxFTLUQ6HMeZznrbrzA+fJUY/Cu7B+lc3IzPynPeJvGMF ChR5iBm+BwqFx2P7oI/0sUJNjsKTMAfbhyh1cq6Vn69mej7fHPqY X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHHr3Jg4zkfskfYcM0JutmqSwo8XgiftUowQf30mo/j5Q3FLhQzSH7XAreHirraJh3zJ+hwkQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:a18:b0:4d4:2069:eafb with SMTP id 24-20020a0561220a1800b004d42069eafbmr5612113vkn.9.1711978138225; Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:28:58 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Received: by 2002:a05:6214:f67:b0:690:bae8:6289 with SMTP id iy7-20020a0562140f6700b00690bae86289ls7235981qvb.1.-pod-prod-09-us; Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:28:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4528:0:b0:690:89b1:b02f with SMTP id l8-20020ad44528000000b0069089b1b02fmr85310qvu.0.1711978137290; Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:28:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 2002:a05:620a:444b:b0:78b:c6cb:86d4 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-78bc6cbd439ms85a; Mon, 1 Apr 2024 06:25:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:21aa:b0:478:7700:9bea with SMTP id i10-20020a05610221aa00b0047877009beamr1574638vsb.22.1711977949984; Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:25:49 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1711977949; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=rxXIgmOamg2vIGZOvjxfdTqSvf5YCahfiBhPEuUlSrEJrGXJfyOGt+EqPLax+rEQZj B+zLO5Sd/cvx86NoKD+ooP+E9Wi3XH+J+Xevm1QzU7NykHw7eDHNvYcfk6DWRN0KWxOl Mr2HXI2PHnIHIN2r47/EBhKEGDDioNs4H6zGe/+wpWjmUGqBaIuyeRvglEMU6KZQR6yK iBZGXZvUcAeII/GD4GLokJ+lyVeYlAFe/DgOQeh43peEOz//oNjyua+wwbq/i73YelFb 8wQqQXbgomrDF+2A9FWXEvHEWAyKH5DCPnT+UXttGq47YIQ4w6vGZTdpxOb35C9SSF2d AU4g== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:dkim-signature; bh=nlEYzrIc2Rx+XYKhKIRi86Udnd9aXDlpTW/GeROhQoI=; fh=hEesrhTVPuDcB2X/lDQ0hazT3cF2jsEjIK8vGTR1bys=; b=wntB20OZPNNsWcK0ZrYCsrdhy+nryCTRdtumvs3xVa2AbqT5QAjyaiidkW+NljkCQd 9Cv53Txgqr9L4SyGERxSBhURglYfvbIUSQxZ1xKUccYDhfy/wvl3XDiugEZQKnMmJodF Me7l1NyGeIK9de+h7nriP406XM54sR6cMZ0bJjxUm5cC99fiUt7I0ZtClR/ld7y++0ux PpCz/Tg0QCsY4Vyxmaz/tUkspFbCjE9xP38X4/zZ+5wMUUGm8+3UInbnJ9dCGcD/Xv0T z0L9NWn/INvZj85O2KD54RtNg9hfyhK5xqfybfZwieDDDD6XKPDTyV8Trcc5/u3yLUWe 8e7A==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@mail.wpsoftware.net header.s=default header.b=dE3MPDaV; spf=pass (google.com: domain of apoelstra@wpsoftware.net designates 66.183.0.205 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=apoelstra@wpsoftware.net; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=wpsoftware.net Received: from mail.wpsoftware.net ([66.183.0.205]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id w14-20020ab035ee000000b007e349fe6acdsi290038uau.2.2024.04.01.06.25.49 for ; Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of apoelstra@wpsoftware.net designates 66.183.0.205 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.183.0.205; Received: from camus (camus-andrew.lan [192.168.0.190]) by mail.wpsoftware.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C1EFA40122; Mon, 1 Apr 2024 13:25:48 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2024 13:25:47 +0000 From: Andrew Poelstra To: Jameson Lopp Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] The Future of Bitcoin Testnet Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5X6/aihRXBAaMKNQ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: apoelstra@wpsoftware.net X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@mail.wpsoftware.net header.s=default header.b=dE3MPDaV; spf=pass (google.com: domain of apoelstra@wpsoftware.net designates 66.183.0.205 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=apoelstra@wpsoftware.net; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=wpsoftware.net Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) --5X6/aihRXBAaMKNQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 09:19:50AM -0400, Jameson Lopp wrote: > > 2. The reason the block height is insanely high is due to a rather amusing > edge case bug that causes the difficulty to regularly get reset to 1, which > causes a bit of havoc. If you want a deep dive into the quirk: > https://blog.lopp.net/the-block-storms-of-bitcoins-testnet/ > The purpose of this is to avoid situations where a single miner drives the difficulty way up and then drops off, leaving the other testnet miners unable to produce blocks. In the early CPU->GPU->FPGA->ASIC days it could happen that there was only one person with an ASIC who would have literally a 1000x advantage over other miners (since miner costs money and nobody gets paid). Nowadays we can probably assume that anyone who cares to mine testnet can scrounge up a couple used S9s or something, so for a griefer to obtain a 1000x advantage like this would require a serious cash investment. So maybe it's okay to drop the rule entirely. But I would propose weakening it -- requiring no blocks for a longer period of time and resetting the difficulty to something (much) higher than 1. Or just dropping the difficulty by a fixed factor of 128 or something (though we'd need extra logic to avoid this being done repeatedly to drive the difficulty to 1 anyway, maybe) so we don't need to guess at a reasonable floor. Obviously this is a major bikeshedding vector but hopefully people don't get too enthusiastic about particular values here. Just pick something and run with it. Anyway ACK resetting testnet if people are valuing its coins. I recall a long time ago this was (in some sense I don't remember) an official condition under which testnet was supposed to be reset. -- Andrew Poelstra Director of Research, Blockstream Email: apoelstra at wpsoftware.net Web: https://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew The sun is always shining in space -Justin Lewis-Webster -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/Zgq12xgPpyD9ie0L%40camus. --5X6/aihRXBAaMKNQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEkPnKPD7Je+ki35VexYjWPOQbl8EFAmYKtdoACgkQxYjWPOQb l8G2NAf/ShFjyT3QHvWzNbod4NOwRwgp9mDS29A+aSYds81wszk2PyJhYd4apdRG VJ0DPFx8Fd6WsYznoCZ6Fou4XAjA3clFfYWu+zdhkRjbyC5PZLgT2NWEHapGUAyL iRQZviTn03VW+dHt4wgZ0Lep67JD+1Bm8l8+7Vkoyx5CwLvKZAgQ0bybWN3cYCoR da4T2qmEE+pmyG0Et7uqfJPMQ/BrjOxxO26phKnhVLADKqIc/heS1vKp2Y01vEU8 XnMqfk+XsHtoOmOv/AT2Z78kqwUjo4K5ePIOcMdFUtWGKMlZ50sj2AsQQ6+RXfuH eQYwBLSiT6YtL2W7Makt50FalT5K5A== =7uyI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5X6/aihRXBAaMKNQ--