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[103.168.172.149]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d75a77b69052e-444d77e860fsi156371cf.4.2024.06.22.07.29.46 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 22 Jun 2024 07:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.149 as permitted sender) client-ip=103.168.172.149; Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailfout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 935F81380145 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2024 10:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 22 Jun 2024 10:29:46 -0400 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvledrfeefiedgjeekucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpeffhffvuffkfhggtggujgesghdtre ertddtvdenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgvrhcuvfhougguuceophgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthho uggurdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeeivddvleeikeejueekgfdtleefgeehhe elffeuheetgefhleevjeefleegvefffeenucffohhmrghinhepphgvthgvrhhtohguugdr ohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe hpvghtvgesphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrgh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2024 10:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CA0CB5F858; Sat, 22 Jun 2024 14:29:43 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2024 14:29:43 +0000 From: Peter Todd To: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Libre Relay v27.1 released with lower 1.25x replacement threshold Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="eztl+bCsfb9ltblC" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: pete@petertodd.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=H5XSs1Us; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.149 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) --eztl+bCsfb9ltblC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 10:33:46PM +0000, Peter Todd wrote: > On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 04:33:47PM +0000, Peter Todd wrote: > > Libre Relay/RBFR is already mitigating transaction pinning in the real = world. > > I've personally run into a few cases with LND nodes where anchor output= s were > > spent after the 16 block CSV timeout by third parties in a large transa= ction > > that the LND node was not aware of, leading to LND creating a conflicti= ng, > > higher-fee, transaction spending the anchor output and other outputs. N= ormally > > the conflict would fail to get mined due to the higher absolute fee pin= . But in > > each case after propagation via Libre Relay nodes, F2Pool eventually mi= ned the > > higher fee-rate transaction after a few hours; I suspect F2Pool has an = unusual > > short mempool expiration time. Lightning node operators should consider= running > > Libre Relay for this purpose, as the existing Lightning protocol does h= ave some > > pinning vulnerabilities. >=20 > Here's a real world example of this pinning situation being resolved by R= BFR, ...and we have yet another example of this same pinning situation, involvin= g a totally different Lightning node. This time the RBFR transaction was bumped= one more time with RBF before getting mined. But both transactions were still l= ess total fees than the pin tx: 2024-06-21T19:25:10Z [mempool] replacing tx 68b813b844e4160227e4e73573c2332= 1d77b9fd2b4fe701b6a2a2a12309db020 (wtxid=3D08950f68152f7890f52a7f4029a89b54= b26e7c575dd7c8eb5bf2910b7c13cbcb) with 4664cb8e556b1c673dbea7cbdc77c5ad29cf= bf0e9a439d1b51874e2161f3edcc (wtxid=3Da63305ccd136f2b613f9add2b293c6d4eb20b= 0eca3271e687445b749aa9b7e69) for -0.0049018 additional fees, -98471 delta b= ytes 2024-06-21T19:25:10Z [mempool] AcceptToMemoryPool: peer=3D454: accepted 466= 4cb8e556b1c673dbea7cbdc77c5ad29cfbf0e9a439d1b51874e2161f3edcc (wtxid=3Da633= 05ccd136f2b613f9add2b293c6d4eb20b0eca3271e687445b749aa9b7e69) (poolsz 10358= 2 txn, 283345 kB) 2024-06-21T22:13:09Z [mempool] replacing tx 4664cb8e556b1c673dbea7cbdc77c5a= d29cfbf0e9a439d1b51874e2161f3edcc (wtxid=3Da63305ccd136f2b613f9add2b293c6d4= eb20b0eca3271e687445b749aa9b7e69) with 4f6ed6c3fe25571b883a631503ab84cccef4= 50b96d8c9065c712246758e15e6b (wtxid=3D7a465ba70b8f8d983aad594530751e9c17be7= 7b3dac11275ade213ceccad997e) for 0.00003035 additional fees, 0 delta bytes 2024-06-21T22:13:09Z [mempool] AcceptToMemoryPool: peer=3D41398: accepted 4= f6ed6c3fe25571b883a631503ab84cccef450b96d8c9065c712246758e15e6b (wtxid=3D7a= 465ba70b8f8d983aad594530751e9c17be77b3dac11275ade213ceccad997e) (poolsz 924= 68 txn, 273091 kB) Again, it was F2Pool that fixed the problem. --=20 https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= bitcoindev/Znbf17x8TWuGBTYr%40petertodd.org. --eztl+bCsfb9ltblC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE0RcYcKRzsEwFZ3N5Lly11TVRLzcFAmZ239MACgkQLly11TVR Lzd3Cg//eahQnfstdlTwj1UHR5/olrpyAt2Gi3wVkPeuiXBcE3sWFUT8Uh3aDPLA rZzKSLHqykwt1vJ803/MQQJj8dA7zE7z44mKFAgFvlnUikAUItCRX1UhuPAdl+cZ 9lkoH6MhLWZnZxNPJ/kztrj7KVLMFjOzNKdVk0qbpNP7EW8v4wd11ZrkcP9in9de d4yQv4QjAkJZYMgy3xfBh/Zi0qXJrILj/C2TiCVlDbIeB8a44A8UFPUCwZspV0aj 3QY5CWMfALFgcsnqosn98YloivIKLx3767ThYLaiAFEvQo9BNGiO/mau7rMMJAv9 G5v94OxzzPZy28rBHQ/E1we3RFdkcRqVeNI8ijPB+3/z8fbtWT4LdSFH6a1HML4w fKSjegjQgZACQ9aVnAXYzGvwpXpZTaeC6MMkplvWS8E30ke0hSAXubESSV+FU6+O 15MAibH53fBxYwqur0d1TRJwq9/KlfgUbmS+HyxlQ/aeGQ2iUMw3gtLLoZP6DsvC VMu6oQ4qtmYnO/TMpEA7CvSvvkEx6mNbhazTAF0QOMOGLYMDIsnk0lut1+naAWxl vnL20zqd4Np5+svjN0aMWfxOnp9oXDqTgAIVCfR5RkWCgRqTWolPPgqT2UCBgGu9 76AHGpNcO4eLg67YD7jz99P7SFsTEHeJEIfM8h5dtdxKyV9p7sM= =tgPu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --eztl+bCsfb9ltblC--