From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970
Delivery-date: Sun, 20 Apr 2025 05:25:10 -0700
Received: from mail-qv1-f57.google.com ([209.85.219.57])
by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
(Exim 4.94.2)
(envelope-from <bitcoindev+bncBDRYHVHZTUGRBGOPSPAAMGQEGGX7XMA@googlegroups.com>)
id 1u6TjR-0005Jp-Ro
for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2025 05:25:10 -0700
Received: by mail-qv1-f57.google.com with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6ed0cc28f7dsf81075446d6.0
for <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>; Sun, 20 Apr 2025 05:25:09 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1745151904; cv=pass;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=jUBDiJbIm+qwVo+pH+qhyvIDtz6/aZkzmNsaTUUrbN8WgBys4TxahUGXCHYv0b2wqv
f9F4jC1XXgDqSy1xNZK+2IS5CgAU/IQNpsdDcvDzZvKFurF3TpkGJbLlVektXJmbtt3V
yea9dLu+BOYq2WRAGKuDE9mqxLRCOL4Hbas+1LWHuSzia6F16Tt1fT9k6kPcKmAIuOat
Y4JEzXrgdSSoyBGiN5q1ZJGclUPcefwtS6y+FPx01Nd8xRlPB2Jom1zHRwNEyRI7Iejj
Wrs8bbyGZfoHV1AIWYkElNk3CtEs9hwD0e3HZjZUyeJ8o/h1xgtWewSCXFWg8tS3ZKuM
fmcw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:in-reply-to:content-disposition
:mime-version:references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date
:feedback-id:sender:dkim-signature;
bh=FW7X1/VjBllce+bBJF+ye8zVCXEU8HHBIMMvoUl57FQ=;
fh=s0wtUXzpUQNVfzn5FnIeVbrwPSTnmpdVjAGm5nwuEvU=;
b=NWDQMeAYGeQ20xOql3yJhRhAwL+VRUPwszI0DfUU0RjfsHnsn8LKQnSRUjHAZDZJEX
KZFHyQJOMd8CcMWWU5KBCSVwtV+3l0XfZhw9xPkS0h0lkv/Io+I6KQxV+eB/+cDxktHU
jMvN+UMCAsDHXRGJPpcWSES1OlCH3PbXInAcRxO8N0XCtfU0vRKdz8lICkawG4ZPxBMj
0Q9FqEZa6PIhNiNki/1Vhal4KIDZTT/UMj9s5fOE97+9TdJ9mi1pf0kk0AE+0SGRQdDb
o6bVvASPYRBx6m03oQrvzU2KXfEFRDqAb4hzju3tD0Wwdzs2z3G0ByC0OLPQGTUWYIQx
YbFw==;
darn=gnusha.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=SskHzCFz;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.159 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1745151904; x=1745756704; darn=gnusha.org;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version
:references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:feedback-id:sender
:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=FW7X1/VjBllce+bBJF+ye8zVCXEU8HHBIMMvoUl57FQ=;
b=LPlQqazsrz0+qipmmu+yC4boNeJZXu4nsiMLg/K+VOokxeQOnxbWIc0Kh/fh7dV7H7
xkzeGuTE61fWizPDVQgE69hzp6Tx7D3SL5QNNkHuteEsuyxiCtdUGhm/Qqvh8B2aljAK
a18IFaURD4kCToa2aJFvEbnigSIGKSzMcoDKkSioMxfnq7XcB5yLztiJ79jyeT6UIFRx
zifgMXjMRHd0lE/LxMi+zSaVr8RIyhEmezBB/HU53SsZ4rNTQEiIM2uMxNk5Ny/p6IW3
MGw9U2Lenr9io3qRB/ZP7AAjt8gKNBL/myLYkLqfYeszSO4lRRtnsCGbc/VIJiu73WiF
nEXQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1745151904; x=1745756704;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version
:references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:feedback-id
:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date
:message-id:reply-to;
bh=FW7X1/VjBllce+bBJF+ye8zVCXEU8HHBIMMvoUl57FQ=;
b=fZNxaeyYvg06fUQVXOZwYKrnJxmgyWYTbOf1JCIVD0qykPr3Z13y5vvSH/Mn62lPNR
NyF0/S9QBQ4JXiffImj27NFcWRBXEXW928s1yYkg3MgKLFAxL3TipAY7kToSSedzabZH
Nvswx2S8MulwS9yOsA021fpc0XKcG10BTQ65RZQV1s0f698cTu28L8Ulr91H4HW35OMs
xrt+FKZMBeUxuCzWIFL8RtkzemGFQrA0eCWZDwtjF3UofXaE7FKe40/MIyJUVzHG1tIJ
Zx+7YxUFsUxuBEZcgwfJOjm5E+Z2WO/Dbn9+an6+kBsbRQKPMtW78ljpTdzapZ2fA5E3
Prow==
Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCWieet7z0x+TN1FixGhtc2IPVhukzd63igh25flI9c8rz5pya9VVimiKwGUjNlSwhgVZQATg1mkwwW/@gnusha.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxQSSoIDDzcg/By3/4vBoYfBOSw8uX6yOfyd4EK7/U0poqFMB5t
5SysljtQJ7SRt+VNG6sjft649fhculDRRfwgUW+RgGCkg9zx2c9w
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFlSqHApD/iPfSUnNDILDKDanKzft7bjV2+a0JOuQzuBsNqOUJWqfvg94rwpbirddRqCLF4gg==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:2304:b0:6e8:9021:9090 with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6f2c45bc869mr141218756d6.26.1745151903575;
Sun, 20 Apr 2025 05:25:03 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h=ARLLPALH0DnWR8hlhNWPh/43tP5AQC1OBV7ylAWB+VFOExgfIQ==
Received: by 2002:a05:6214:4b04:b0:6e8:8d41:8cae with SMTP id
6a1803df08f44-6f2b99b8121ls59957016d6.0.-pod-prod-04-us; Sun, 20 Apr 2025
05:24:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4156:b0:7c5:4de8:bf65 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7c928018ebamr1651238185a.36.1745151897464;
Sun, 20 Apr 2025 05:24:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 2002:a05:620a:3787:b0:7c5:3b15:3956 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7c91deb244fms85a;
Sun, 20 Apr 2025 01:43:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:57ce:0:b0:477:64dd:5765 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-47aec4c359amr165990681cf.44.1745138628281;
Sun, 20 Apr 2025 01:43:48 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1745138628; cv=none;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=TItokO5IX5IHAMfEtmCKKq7L1phOV/v58nGCtIuw8OTI4l6IW/fGy6HiY1Ld9unKOC
bSPGxJMySOvF04/Dbsb/SjwlP3QXo+d5DCJ7bbftEEHdFkCEKJItM5ef0TqvJ0n5csPP
U4VsRKlIe/lKn3SzML5S6rw1uWeZYgtE13yUfm7rJbXB9UqmniNR35pvRXVb4WK7cVlG
jMftpvuguoiCtw+GHiWtGmFPsDAoSbN/RjOZ/JoWTH8OPv00KFPPRruGwhvO3icbVetn
pnmJ2gkcdlpGkWJnxN+NS0Vkz3aEkYsUGSfKjJhObMIiVp5/8fN8kkKtzW6cxwJuxYsX
3JnQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id
:subject:cc:to:from:date:feedback-id:dkim-signature;
bh=9ECPUF9HIb0HFZSHCS4Pjqxd6AUHiIEODzk3rhZp6ug=;
fh=m2IwlnuMmP6ceRgqI8U7RCh8Dkd3VeWlWEfxse0Wcvc=;
b=VA2/Ur4CZ19XhFCC6g8BO4N3dBLL4BscY6qGPM6QUU1cQyEB8dd58uj/xOPD39days
X/f91GVRnY9qMn4mGdqwIeCaU6+6kMAfsJRFo83STwAKz90FcncsuPwnrVMqfk9lHH2p
H2oiL8zwlszGmiIuBNHw6xVppBnnavzLkgqjasFRh7sT6uHSNnMwy77AuLxuQ5qEDaWN
muk2ZFXylU0Zqxi7y6GnyOpav+qM0sUOjwRAouC8LMNRzo7avgF3VILxzvaAioek3XOg
lH9Za55i3uv/CnLOl2GDV9BqPGF7zEmtnErP7dkHx6amYR2EB0AoPjIDTGY1+e8E/QEh
X0oA==;
dara=google.com
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=SskHzCFz;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.159 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org
Received: from fhigh-a8-smtp.messagingengine.com (fhigh-a8-smtp.messagingengine.com. [103.168.172.159])
by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id af79cd13be357-7c9259b18f3si23116485a.0.2025.04.20.01.43.48
for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
(version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
Sun, 20 Apr 2025 01:43:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.159 as permitted sender) client-ip=103.168.172.159;
Received: from phl-compute-04.internal (phl-compute-04.phl.internal [10.202.2.44])
by mailfhigh.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E688D114011A;
Sun, 20 Apr 2025 04:43:47 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from phl-mailfrontend-01 ([10.202.2.162])
by phl-compute-04.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 20 Apr 2025 04:43:47 -0400
X-ME-Sender: <xms:w7MEaCceK9UWvVlASsmnJ1VDpbjBc9FhnRpJnLQPhRmuzc8PdZB2lQ>
<xme:w7MEaMP8XGbt5UC0osI1VE_1juv-9rtuwJPNoaJ6capuDtjZx854qNv_TsCi9vxa2
1CgAFdpue8smDOcCN4>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:w7MEaDgp0zVFftN2hl9gu31X1TpDAJAlm3gKWBSb-LvHrRL5aA1IJl_PPjU>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefvddrtddtgddvfeejgeejucetufdoteggodetrf
dotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggv
pdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpih
gvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhepfffhvfevuffkfhggtggujgesghdtreertddt
vdenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgvrhcuvfhougguuceophgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurd
horhhgqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeelvdellefftddukeduffejgfefjeeuheeileef
tdfgteduteeggeevueethfejtdenucffohhmrghinhepphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrgh
enucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehpvght
vgesphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrghdpnhgspghrtghpthhtohepvddpmhhouggvpehsmh
htphhouhhtpdhrtghpthhtohepsghithgtohhinhguvghvsehgohhoghhlvghgrhhouhhp
shdrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhopegurghrohhsihhorhesphhrohhtohhnmhgrihhlrdgtoh
hm
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:w7MEaP9IdHZ-w0shTmabqkAevyzpY6pnPBlC_Ki8gLC563f8Mv4o3w>
<xmx:w7MEaOvyb5J4XOmG9YuAIR5QuHHwHDpb-tYr39-gsJdvKC8eZE1cQw>
<xmx:w7MEaGEsdCl_NebfUvdZwFmO_lkAfsySMGsD4YPfN3paEIqkxbInDA>
<xmx:w7MEaNOcX4DAU2DFXYPSj1KzJfRRdm1VWwPite0X86RysvN6EMKRXw>
<xmx:w7MEaMYh_usSdO0rcrQzJ6Uo0TRR5tpTkAgQAoEad9oWFFFN-c33nXI2>
Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sun,
20 Apr 2025 04:43:47 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000)
id 7BBB8A1D9C; Sun, 20 Apr 2025 08:43:46 +0000 (UTC)
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2025 08:43:46 +0000
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: Antoine Poinsot <darosior@protonmail.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Relax OP_RETURN standardness restrictions
Message-ID: <aASzwkFfGFBYudK_@petertodd.org>
References: <rhfyCHr4RfaEalbfGejVdolYCVWIyf84PT2062DQbs5-eU8BPYty5sGyvI3hKeRZQtVC7rn_ugjUWFnWCymz9e9Chbn7FjWJePllFhZRKYk=@protonmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512;
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Js7H0geGPRL7YTMr"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <rhfyCHr4RfaEalbfGejVdolYCVWIyf84PT2062DQbs5-eU8BPYty5sGyvI3hKeRZQtVC7rn_ugjUWFnWCymz9e9Chbn7FjWJePllFhZRKYk=@protonmail.com>
X-Original-Sender: pete@petertodd.org
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass
header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=SskHzCFz; spf=pass
(google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.159 as
permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bitcoindev.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512
List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/post>, <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <https://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bitcoindev+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev
List-Subscribe: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>, <mailto:bitcoindev+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+786775582512+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
<https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>
X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/)
--Js7H0geGPRL7YTMr
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 06:52:34PM +0000, 'Antoine Poinsot' via Bitcoin Dev=
elopment Mailing List wrote:
> Hi,
>=20
> Standardness rules exist for 3 mains reasons: mitigate DoS vectors, provi=
de upgrade hooks, or as a nudge to deter some usages.
>=20
> Bitcoin Core will by default only relay and mine transactions with at mos=
t a single OP_RETURN output, with a scriptPubKey no larger than 83 bytes. T=
his standardness rule falls into the third category: it aims to mildly dete=
r data storage while still allowing a less harmful alternative than using n=
on-provably-unspendable outputs.
>=20
> Developers are now designing constructions that work around these limitat=
ions. An example is Clementine, the recently-announced Citrea bridge, which=
uses unspendable Taproot outputs to store data in its "WatchtowerChallenge=
" transaction due to the standardness restrictions on the size of OP_RETURN=
s[^0]. Meanwhile, we have witnessed in recent years that the nudge is ineff=
ective to deter storing data onchain.
>=20
> Since the restrictions on the usage of OP_RETURN outputs encourage harmfu=
l practices while being ineffective in deterring unwanted usage, i propose =
to drop them. I suggest to start by lifting the restriction on the size of =
the scriptPubKey for OP_RETURN outputs, as a first minimal step to stop enc=
ouraging harmful behaviour, and to then proceed to lift the restriction on =
the number of OP_RETURN outputs per transactions.
I would suggest removing both limits at the same time.
While multiple OP_Return outputs are more expensive than a single one
for the same amount of total data. In some cases they're necessary for
technical reasons, e.g. if signing with SIGHASH_SINGLE.
--=20
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/=
aASzwkFfGFBYudK_%40petertodd.org.
--Js7H0geGPRL7YTMr
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----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=16xN
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--Js7H0geGPRL7YTMr--