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[103.168.172.159]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id af79cd13be357-7c9259b18f3si23116485a.0.2025.04.20.01.43.48 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 20 Apr 2025 01:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.159 as permitted sender) client-ip=103.168.172.159; Received: from phl-compute-04.internal (phl-compute-04.phl.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailfhigh.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E688D114011A; Sun, 20 Apr 2025 04:43:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-01 ([10.202.2.162]) by phl-compute-04.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 20 Apr 2025 04:43:47 -0400 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefvddrtddtgddvfeejgeejucetufdoteggodetrf dotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggv pdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpih gvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhepfffhvfevuffkfhggtggujgesghdtreertddt vdenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgvrhcuvfhougguuceophgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurd horhhgqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeelvdellefftddukeduffejgfefjeeuheeileef tdfgteduteeggeevueethfejtdenucffohhmrghinhepphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrgh enucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehpvght vgesphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrghdpnhgspghrtghpthhtohepvddpmhhouggvpehsmh htphhouhhtpdhrtghpthhtohepsghithgtohhinhguvghvsehgohhoghhlvghgrhhouhhp shdrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhopegurghrohhsihhorhesphhrohhtohhnmhgrihhlrdgtoh hm X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sun, 20 Apr 2025 04:43:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7BBB8A1D9C; Sun, 20 Apr 2025 08:43:46 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2025 08:43:46 +0000 From: Peter Todd To: Antoine Poinsot Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Relax OP_RETURN standardness restrictions Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Js7H0geGPRL7YTMr" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: pete@petertodd.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=SskHzCFz; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.159 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) --Js7H0geGPRL7YTMr Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 06:52:34PM +0000, 'Antoine Poinsot' via Bitcoin Dev= elopment Mailing List wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Standardness rules exist for 3 mains reasons: mitigate DoS vectors, provi= de upgrade hooks, or as a nudge to deter some usages. >=20 > Bitcoin Core will by default only relay and mine transactions with at mos= t a single OP_RETURN output, with a scriptPubKey no larger than 83 bytes. T= his standardness rule falls into the third category: it aims to mildly dete= r data storage while still allowing a less harmful alternative than using n= on-provably-unspendable outputs. >=20 > Developers are now designing constructions that work around these limitat= ions. An example is Clementine, the recently-announced Citrea bridge, which= uses unspendable Taproot outputs to store data in its "WatchtowerChallenge= " transaction due to the standardness restrictions on the size of OP_RETURN= s[^0]. Meanwhile, we have witnessed in recent years that the nudge is ineff= ective to deter storing data onchain. >=20 > Since the restrictions on the usage of OP_RETURN outputs encourage harmfu= l practices while being ineffective in deterring unwanted usage, i propose = to drop them. I suggest to start by lifting the restriction on the size of = the scriptPubKey for OP_RETURN outputs, as a first minimal step to stop enc= ouraging harmful behaviour, and to then proceed to lift the restriction on = the number of OP_RETURN outputs per transactions. I would suggest removing both limits at the same time. While multiple OP_Return outputs are more expensive than a single one for the same amount of total data. In some cases they're necessary for technical reasons, e.g. if signing with SIGHASH_SINGLE. --=20 https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= aASzwkFfGFBYudK_%40petertodd.org. --Js7H0geGPRL7YTMr Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE0RcYcKRzsEwFZ3N5Lly11TVRLzcFAmgEs7UACgkQLly11TVR LzcH9w//ehVmRDxuzbyz4tGm1n2MMNeCA5Egy/LgyO0dfhq5/1D1iAckf2lVFj0b WTU7tH4bqo/le5PqSeGrjttJUxCG0gSLGyM2ztGoFfjN2FKoY9uhz0aw9n4s55uw kOnRoA0pi5UE3O7fSTJPFXxxlq41jygFNaIfKyTD3VOA/3D3YF9+R4a2Gq8TqkSk xIwtZ7FPiNETk9SMhR5R64Si/n7400WXpbqEC+gzeak7Qgh6RpD7W6X3+eIuVR1q dU/MU8ulhI/nUFpcg6Oa+sONVJgeWvGwwCViKybYrqbf2Oqw2grhFFSWjlHMpYD0 HZfHZ+wtesGzgxrOxMX5z3tU5iYfK2tcoT+az5m/MNUZqAuUk8+Dv7A0yELVR0k6 r+VNjbRe7EEFOu210ki6wtYeqKCZsMgQCtW2VBd+Mr25Nt+koVBrYt8tTXCFLKgg 0VIzGYLTVRyIDHeccv6zfbmqeSBrI2mxr899uSQYMMQn4EzYuVODv/SAGoZjegGF 0/U23MizB8n8rT2rFSPepNReGreXJgvYbxqsV085GDCPpQmiKg68NI/8JNA3E0FW rthX9q+KjMC6ze3p/oJaXSjuVYpCpAafyuWzbcJwS+A8D/aHuIMKfNlkX1fVIC0t DjAyxuYKJywhsmvB2tPt0rBgIiNWHV+rcisYrO/Ut7oR02toGEQ= =16xN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Js7H0geGPRL7YTMr--