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[103.168.172.154]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ca18e2360f4ac-864aa407dc3si39356239f.4.2025.05.05.14.34.53 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 05 May 2025 14:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.154 as permitted sender) client-ip=103.168.172.154; Received: from phl-compute-03.internal (phl-compute-03.phl.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailfhigh.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABA291140136; Mon, 5 May 2025 17:34:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-02 ([10.202.2.163]) by phl-compute-03.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 05 May 2025 17:34:52 -0400 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefvddrtddtgddvkedvvddtucetufdoteggodetrf dotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggv pdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpih gvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhepfffhvfevuffkfhggtggujgesghdtreertddt vdenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgvrhcuvfhougguuceophgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurd horhhgqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeekuedvhfduuedujefhvdeivdefiedtjefhudel tdetgedvueejffejueeuffdtfeenucffohhmrghinhepuggvlhhvihhnghgsihhttghoih hnrdhorhhgpdhpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptden ucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepphgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgpd hnsggprhgtphhtthhopeefpdhmohguvgepshhmthhpohhuthdprhgtphhtthhopegrjhes vghrihhsihgrnhdrtghomhdrrghupdhrtghpthhtohepghhmrgigfigvlhhlsehgmhgrih hlrdgtohhmpdhrtghpthhtohepsghithgtohhinhguvghvsehgohhoghhlvghgrhhouhhp shdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 5 May 2025 17:34:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0F3A49FBD9; Mon, 5 May 2025 21:34:51 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 5 May 2025 21:34:51 +0000 From: Peter Todd To: Anthony Towns Cc: Greg Maxwell , Bitcoin Development Mailing List Subject: [bitcoindev] Weak blocks give an advantage to large miners Message-ID: References: <9c50244f-0ca0-40a5-8b76-01ba0d67ec1bn@googlegroups.com> <0b6ac4cf-1f58-42b4-823a-8b35fad9f17fn@googlegroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="uo2uMKG5u++B3seI" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: pete@petertodd.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b="JY0/3JUU"; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.154 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) --uo2uMKG5u++B3seI Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline On Mon, May 05, 2025 at 07:18:57PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > I meant to mention this last email, but had forgotten where to find > the link. Personally, I think Greg's "relay extra transactions via weak > blocks" idea [0] from a year ago is an approach that should be considered > here. The TLDR is that if there are miners out there with different > relay policies than your node that are accepting transactions you'll > reject (eg, lower fee, new tx versions, more complicated dependencies, > ...) then once they find a relatively high PoW share, have the network > relay that as a weak compact block, with full round-trips to gather > any transactions that weren't in your mempool and add those txs to your > extra pool to help with block reconstruction in the near future. > > [0] https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/second-look-at-weak-blocks/805/1 Weak blocks give an advantage to large miners. Small miners, who rarely find blocks, are also going to rarely find weak blocks, making the feature mostly useless for them in terms of their choice of transactions, while simultaneously increasing bandwidth consumption somewhat. Meanwhile large miners do find weak blocks often, making the feature useful for them and making it even easier for them to profit by including non-standard transactions. Which again, is something that small miners can't do. -- https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/aBku-6CIjQKIQjRS%40petertodd.org. --uo2uMKG5u++B3seI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE0RcYcKRzsEwFZ3N5Lly11TVRLzcFAmgZLvgACgkQLly11TVR LzfutxAApkMtD6QmQmIfIMpTWZalaxC4l04wJQl590N2egL4quraw2hiqC08hksv VbGwpp0k4fq7hCdCPyb0q4PhIly11PiXIUgi68lMLbDX+n/SXgoVEJaSektJrH5c 86cKhYO6OfdP+BVOl2A2KZNtmkm9/ZVO/TE/nvhqwk1ylhRiPCvUkVO5r6fxg/4V QUZdgaRzWPhee5GtuoB7E+Mxg7hPmoKBolM2IX4IbXYFoSocfSUppqVavX9yMObQ srf8IM15tkN/ylFM0OOcyJeaP7jpBkTIytS3letgcdexpLPzphdTphiH6ybiFvoD 8Y1dw360URiX1TeO4Ti8i/1syxPl0GWmZObRtOmSQQ+v4gPZPZcvjvDGZodtJmk3 bLFWcc2neA9t832nEhgjb2r2pRctPGqStjxo6m4gBK3Yey4IkuqdaIizQOF6i4nn QVZ4fcbCr1kmvRwGUj/lAVf0hDKNKLNlregsiP0AchkpYkIUg3zpuA2yFMzD9lB6 k4PbmLd2f+DndJXSRkYdBHv8IUlvsYZw6/qtM9M/Yz9GyEr17+L3Zlpe6iUJEwLf kDArTCwk/lWspqaPrqqeHe/S8KJZVJYOS0QHICbtpKiO6kaQ1vTZbTyIq5GT3z1b UQ5hn9INDjfkG7+Gsf8bbdgEY0bcIqtrlRT7Nzq2XpBOl5lgVaU= =P4b6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --uo2uMKG5u++B3seI--