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Mon, 09 Jun 2025 16:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of apoelstra@wpsoftware.net designates 66.183.0.127 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.183.0.127; Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2025 23:02:58 +0000 From: Andrew Poelstra To: James O'Beirne Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] CTV + CSFS: a letter Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="iqSkJPAJqhzlcaIi" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: apoelstra@wpsoftware.net X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@mail.wpsoftware.net header.s=default header.b=d1JrvFYP; spf=pass (google.com: domain of apoelstra@wpsoftware.net designates 66.183.0.127 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=apoelstra@wpsoftware.net; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=wpsoftware.net Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) --iqSkJPAJqhzlcaIi Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le Mon, Jun 09, 2025 at 04:40:52AM -0700, James O'Beirne a =C3=A9crit : > Good morning, >=20 > A letter has been published advocating for the final review and > activation of OP_CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY (BIP-119) and OP_CHECKSIGFROMSTACK > (BIP-348).=20 >=20 > The full text of the letter can be found at https://ctv-csfs.com. It is > reproduced below. > Hi all, James, thanks for posting the letter. Matt, Antoine -- thanks for replying quickly and respectfully even though you disagree with its contents. Let me try to clarify my stance and why I signed onto the letter. First, the specific choice of CTV + CSFS would not be my first choice on technical grounds. But what I'd like to see is something that is technically "good enough" to enable vaults and some new script usecases, while avoiding things that are politically toxic (which seems to be pretty-much everything, but maybe right now does not include CTV+CSFS?). So any arguments about CTV+CSFS on the technical merits I think are great and within the purview of "review and integration" that the letter talks about. (The word "final" I think is too strong and in retrospect I think we should've dropped it. But it's super difficult when writing these things to identify which specific points of language need to be changed.) Second, regarding the ultimatum language -- it was quite difficult to strike a balance between "Core consists of volunteers working on their on projects, with no obligation to anybody, and certainly no obligation to drive forward consensus changes" and "this is a letter that says nothing substantial at all". The message that I want to communicate is: Bitcoin Core, like many stakeholders, can veto any consensus changes because there will never be a large enough contigent of the Bitcoin community confident to rush in where angels dare to tread. But furthermore, if nobody in Core wants to engage at all with consensus changes, then the result is effectively the same as a veto. Therefore, if we want to see an increase in script expressivity, somebody on the Core team needs to help champion it. (There's no one in particular I imagine this "somebody" to be, and I suppose you could accuse me of hypocrisy since I'm not volunteering myself, even though I have the social and technical knowledge to help. It could be, and probably would have to be, somebody who isn't currently active on Core. But it needs to be somebody willing and able to work within the Core review process, to deal with ongoing rebases, etc.) Third, I really really hope that this letter does not lead to further brigading or twitter fights or whatever bleeding into the Github repo. (This is the one point where I think that my fellow cosigners agree with me fully.) But on the other hand, I don't think that I personally should shy away from discussion to mitigate that risk; it needs to be mitigated by more agressive moderation or by higher barriers to entry for people posting on Core PRs. Best Andrew --=20 Andrew Poelstra Director, Blockstream Research Email: apoelstra at wpsoftware.net Web: https://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew The sun is always shining in space -Justin Lewis-Webster --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= aEdoIvOgNNtT6L4s%40mail.wpsoftware.net. --iqSkJPAJqhzlcaIi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEkPnKPD7Je+ki35VexYjWPOQbl8EFAmhHaB0ACgkQxYjWPOQb l8EEigf/U8p7YF0KjT8QecAGkQUv47FUNpGU+lV4+hfaHw0Je3nZxByBuSLok8Rb wyxjhjtj49lVgqEYCbKSMG9c0Uan6LT9jUvO2xk67KmvnUfibIturkB8ErFFt1WX qoluo7FfHfG+bFdW/mKBb+G14aUAIp7OZ8xZI7tBbB4VkwH2Jv0hSwAQxJF9Xvlx Bjtsl7qWm+ZMEKia0/3cpTqxDcZvDZjEL0dnKCB0vfTmARzdosV4V2D2Izl3h3N4 np8R+wvTNqAv2EHG5VJUsE3lAujUCsHcDh1YCAKJ8v5GHVNlblDLJtOqgqHfZkTG XxFhAzyrYE57i7t/FEQVXq+W9Wg49A== =X3O2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --iqSkJPAJqhzlcaIi--