From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C33F413 for ; Wed, 3 Aug 2016 09:53:57 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from v-smtpout3.han.skanova.net (v-smtpout3.han.skanova.net [81.236.60.156]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2FA3FD for ; Wed, 3 Aug 2016 09:53:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rupy.se ([2.248.42.217]) by cmsmtp with SMTP id Uss3bbVjabd4bUss3bILXp; Wed, 03 Aug 2016 11:53:51 +0200 Received: by rupy.se (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E3A8131531; Wed, 3 Aug 2016 11:53:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rupy.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEA0C31530 for ; Wed, 3 Aug 2016 11:53:51 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 11:53:51 +0200 (CEST) From: Marc Larue To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LNX 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfAWJVXy1uznMwOLifIpN2eDLE6rxpaUN6tUnJ9Y6nNN4qzp5fs6uPoP2jxKwLhEnNyjHy6v4WzsI3i5bXy/zH99fXZ/7/xXR10SJTuhxgvyQGwi7i1zA q3xkqD4xPQFhcQwgniADwkkiSyF5MxvnjDdrb28SNcj5vtbuCaZcxNaP X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 03 Aug 2016 18:25:03 +0000 Subject: [bitcoin-dev] Fees and Accounts X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2016 09:53:57 -0000 Hi, I have 2 problems with bitcoind that separately are not a problem but together they make the platform unusable for many projects. If I have accounts I need to make sure the account holders do not overcharge their account. To do this I can now use "createrawtransaction() + fundrawtransaction() + signrawtransaction()" and then make sure the transaction can be paid by an account. But since you deprecated the accounts and there is no sendrawtransactionfrom() method; I either have to build my own account system (this is no picknick btw, since you need to track all incoming funds to all addresses and having an integrated account system in bitcoind is 100% necessary to do this effectively). Or I might be able to go ahead and speculate that you will not be able to untangle the account code and hack my bitcoind to have a sendfrom with a fixed fee parameter that overrides the size multiplication and I just do the math before I send hoping that the transactions go through (this is bad but better than having accounts overcharge because they send dust that induce high fees). I understand the privacy problems with using accounts for off-chain microstransactions but currently it's the best workable option. I hope you understand that I'm not trolling here, I have been mining since 2011 on FPGAs and built bitcoinbankbook.com 2 years ago. When I descovered that once transactions will require fees (back then they didn't) and that your system is not able to handle fees with accounts, I stopped developing everything related to bitcoin. There are probably 100s if not 1000s of developers in the same situation. You can't just deprecate accounts like that because nobody likes the code. Without accounts bitcoind is only a person-to-person manual client. To build many-to-many automatic "organisations" on top of bitcoind you need accounts and you need fees that are predictable. Kind Regards, /marc