From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::136]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 661DDC000E for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 06:30:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 485A860724 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 06:30:01 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.923 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.923 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp3.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=riseup.net Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OyL_4utKAfBK for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 06:30:00 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6286460723 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 06:30:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fews2.riseup.net (fews2-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.84]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4GCyQH5dfjzDrvS; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 23:29:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1624861799; bh=D2blmGQPtHj7LfMgrksjq4822eCfRcoHpzwwkEodaKQ=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=IPsGhytCrx8milvlo0d12uFu2fqS9TQfo46K+Hdl1ixEfn+PY7FLvFaw/LRr6/ysZ nK6kIWRR+e4emtL8deeVsE29WkGj78Sf2MW+CFrVChbty6q40LYS4/rJonZCF4FqUs jYRoDN/zW+2Yws8RjPUYCqcYbqSyev1wkiE4/S3A= X-Riseup-User-ID: 3D9BCE36E64598F38F455C6A67FE169C8E0533AF520A986580834692F1F16CAB Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fews2.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4GCyQH4dLjz1yT1; Sun, 27 Jun 2021 23:29:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 23:29:59 -0700 From: raymo@riseup.net To: ZmnSCPxj In-Reply-To: References: <6leV9mViysrSOipJqrCM3wbqBOMO2gWI3BuEn0VKmaDf7GpawWyUIWLu-ddypMri7YeVmw94HNSaQYYp8fIkjZ0S3OtFTPQa6h9pkLprKDI=@protonmail.com> <9c2cec326adee1f4d4152e2195da0e7b@riseup.net> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 08:09:30 +0000 Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Boost Bitcoin circulation, Million Transactions Per Second with stronger privacy X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 06:30:01 -0000 Hi ZmnSCPxj, Why you get the signal “trust the Gazin wallet”? Sabu is a protocol and the Gazin wallet will be an implementation of that protocol. We will implement it in react-native language to support both Android and iPhone. Of course it will be open source and GPL3. Here is the repository and yet is empty :) https://github.com/raymaot/Gazin I wonder why you do not look carefully into the proposal! IMHO the Sabu will be far better than Lightning. Can’t you see the fact that in Sabu you do not need open and close channels ever? Can you imagine only this feature how dramatically decrease the transactions cost and how increase the distribution of nodes and improve privacy level? it makes every mobile wallet act like a lightning network. Did you note the fact that in Sabu protocol there is no routing? And the only people knew about a transaction are issuer and creditor? No one else won’t be aware of transactions and million transactions per second can be sent and received and repeal dynamically without any footprint on any DLT? The English is not my mother language and probably my paper is not a smooth and easy to read paper, but these are not good excuse to not even reading a technical paper carefully and before understanding it or at least trying to understanding it start to complaining. > All the benefits your scheme claims, are derived from the trust assumption No, All the benefits my scheme claims, are derived from economically rational decision of both issuer and creditors. Regards Raymo On 2021-06-28 05:20, ZmnSCPxj wrote: > Good morning Raymo, > >> >> It looks you already missed the entire design of Sabu and its >> restrictions. First of all, the Gazin wallet always controls the Sabu >> restrictions for every transaction in order to consider it as a valid >> transaction in a valid deal. That is, the creditor wallet controls the >> MT and GT in first place. > > Stop right there. > > From the above, what I get is, "trust the Gazin wallet". > Thus, the suggestion to just use Coinbase. > At least it has existed longer and has more current users that trust > it, rather than this Gazin thing. > > > Is Gazin open-source? > > * If Gazin is open-source, I could download the source code, make a > local copy that gives me a separate copy of the keys, and use the keys > to sign any transaction I want. > * If Gazin is not open-source, then why should I trust the Gazin > wallet until my incoming funds to an open-source wallet I control have > been confirmed deeply? > > Lightning is still superior because: > > * It can be open-sourced completely and even though I have keys to my > onchain funds, I *still* cannot steal the funds of my counterparty. > * Even if I connect my open-source node to a node with a closed-source > implementation, I know I can rely on receives from that node without > waiting for the transaction to be confirmed deeply. > > > All the benefits your scheme claims, are derived from the trust > assumption, which is uninteresting, we already have those, they are > called custodial wallets. > Lightning allows for non-custodiality while achieving high global TPS > and low fees. > And a central idea of Lightning is the requirement to use an n-of-n to > form smaller sub-moneys from the global money. > > Regards, > ZmnSCPxj