From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::133]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ACCEC0032 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 12:33:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F234E4064E for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 12:33:04 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org F234E4064E Authentication-Results: smtp2.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key, unprotected) header.d=notatether.com header.i=@notatether.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=protonmail3 header.b=HJXKMufB X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZMSCl-tsgJdw for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 12:33:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-0301.mail-europe.com (mail-0301.mail-europe.com [188.165.51.139]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5F7A400D8 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 12:33:01 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org C5F7A400D8 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=notatether.com; s=protonmail3; t=1699965173; x=1700224373; bh=fpEfBWemL48jtrHdxQSJbczGST32nPSiXPCZ01UdBRc=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=HJXKMufBjGiJGnq10gZQKnmN7J8MXHHQmVCkGSAr/6wBIcxFQQMFjj1yQ9eQhShZX ieLaQLsXgK+0/PVbCazAyYDVPtwd5ccFuab/T6W1ni+/zANSZoRiMCjLjow9wfayaI pDbcde+hiT6jtk/9MkqdF0GYLjeahemEDXT7sUIec6wPC5Zgy9pXEWEv4eyvQJR2PD SRw9RT5OCxWJNjECrBU+uiHa14oh0jy6BsNPDsM2fhJmCCqJMjbDY5wOorgrF+m+36 jVNumSkRgQjmAIAe4kRtxLazagkjD3Z4maDBPsumkrvFGRqjg3ZJZi0Rp/U6mc950F 7QMQJxQuRQSpQ== Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 12:32:50 +0000 To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org From: Ali Sherief Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Feedback-ID: 34210769:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 13:30:07 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Future of the bitcoin-dev mailing list X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 12:33:06 -0000 I find Google Groups especially repugnant not not only because what has alr= eady been mentioned, but Google Groups has a quite clunky and annoying user= interface that makes it difficult for me to find anything or interest in t= here. Usenet was migrated to Google Groups for some reason, and it's very difficu= lt to search for anything of particular interest using that site. Not to mention that Google Groups also contains a larger amount of spam (w.= r.t value), so arguably the moderation burden will be higher. It is necessary to try to find a way to keep the discussion on a mail serve= r, since a migration off of it will render many users' email clients useles= s for this purpose. - Ali > On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 18:51:26 +0000, alicexbt wr= ote: > > Hi Overthefalls, > > +1 > > Using google for bitcoin mailing list is not good. It feels embarrassing = that some developers that built and maintained the only decentralized netwo= rk used to settle uncensored payments and some of them even working on nost= r, can't build their own mailing list which is better than present mailing = list. I have some ideas but it seems the influential developers have alread= y decided and wont accept anything. > > Nostr can be used to build a mailing list which also allows anyone to sen= d emails apart from publishing events from different clients. We just need = a new NIP so that nostr relays understand its a different event. There can = be multiple front end with different levels of moderation to hide some emai= ls and ultimately one will be used the most. It can use multiple relays and= relays share some information in NIP 11 which can include an email address= . > > /dev/fd0 > floppy disk guy > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. > > On Monday, November 13th, 2023 at 8:35 PM, Overthefalls via bitcoin-dev b= itcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org wrote: > > > On Tue, 2023-11-07 at 09:37 -0600, Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > > > > Google Groups is another interesting option, > > > > I don't think I'm the only person on this list that is strongly opposed= to using google for anything. They are too big and they have their hand in= everything, and their eyes (and analytics) on everything. > > > > I remember when there were virtually no gmail email addresses that post= ed to this list. Suddenly in 2020 or 2021, we had an influx of gmail subscr= ibers and posters. That didn't escape me then and it is not lost on me now. > > > > Email is great for public discussion for many reasons. The fact that ev= eryone gets a copy of the data, there is no single central authority that c= an edit emails once they have been sent out. Anyone can archive email messa= ges, they can generally store or publish the data anywhere they like. That = is not the case with web forum content. > > > > I like the lightning anti-spam fee idea. That would encourage me to fin= ally adopt lightning, and it would, I'm sure, produce some interesting resu= lts for the list. > > > > I don't think email should be out of the question. Does anyone besides = kanzure@gmail.com think that sticking with email is out of the question? > > > > Let's do what's necessary to stick with email.