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[208.79.240.5]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k15-20020a62840f000000b006e71eec45d8si509322pfd.0.2024.03.24.18.36.34 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 24 Mar 2024 18:36:34 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dave@dtrt.org designates 208.79.240.5 as permitted sender) client-ip=208.79.240.5; Received: from smtpauth.rollernet.us (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtpauth.rollernet.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEFCA2800042; Sun, 24 Mar 2024 18:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.rollernet.us (webmail.rollernet.us [IPv6:2607:fe70:0:14::a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtpauth.rollernet.us (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Sun, 24 Mar 2024 18:36:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 15:36:30 -1000 From: "David A. Harding" To: Peter Todd Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_Habov=C5=A1tiak?= , bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Anyone can boost - a more efficient alternative to anchor outputs In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.4.15 Message-ID: X-Sender: dave@dtrt.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed X-Rollernet-Abuse: Contact abuse@rollernet.us to report. Abuse policy: http://www.rollernet.us/policy X-Rollernet-Submit: Submit ID 6f7d.6600d51e.98096.0 X-Original-Sender: dave@dtrt.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dave@dtrt.org designates 208.79.240.5 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dave@dtrt.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) On 2024-03-19 04:24, Peter Todd wrote: > To reduce trust you could do an automated, multiple round, signing > scheme where > the service signs transations with higher and higher fee-rates in > exchange for > most funds over LN. When the service thinks the user has paid all that they're going to pay, what stops them from replacing their transaction one more time with a version that does not sponsor the user's transaction? Also, what stops the service from selling the same space in a sponsor transaction to multiple users at once, e.g. customers Alice and Bob each iterate with the service many times until they get a sponsor with as much fee as they want, but when they go to broadcast, they discover that their transactions conflict, so one of them paid for nothing? I had thought about using a simple pay-for-signature scheme using signature adaptors and a hoped-for LN that supports PTLCs, but I think it suffers from the same problems. I haven't been able to think of a way to significantly reduce trust for outsourced sponsorship without also significantly reducing the efficiency of sponsor transactions. -Dave P.S. related discussion about efficient sponsors may be found in this thread: https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/improving-transaction-sponsor-blockspace-efficiency/696 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/dd99ffec956a6fe6b75e363108099e68%40dtrt.org.