From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1353BCB8 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 16:49:00 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-wr1-f44.google.com (mail-wr1-f44.google.com [209.85.221.44]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D751712 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 16:48:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wr1-f44.google.com with SMTP id w1so17585181wrp.2 for ; Tue, 02 Apr 2019 09:48:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to; bh=nGEnddA9Lx0x5p19ENmH6Kv0ucpN+EUAeZhl2izgHME=; b=p4Dwq5uyWzjGP6s3EUSh+7/N5Top3liudDw9lCNb4X01E4YcjohcN2Z7mkJyeDGyHE kfKhIY488K6AdfknxYp3zNPfV1RmC70WJn4mSZXnPXWI0LsUAYaIEZtAKKaRYY3K/Afq /SBVDQq5Qq8IpH70121XbiPP2644E5JkbwL6iHxUyW/cgyQTuip8f9KBmqGIdUlrBGRW tGOmBNLjOKosJt1m/TuAurRYiccPt2vczZmoVG/SsyqXMp69lJj4ZH84tNqCLCnjygnp V/jBnIhA6IOWktSB8yqfVV3m5N65oLNLVo3x7yPuaw/RG2OUpsXCGxoDn/ey/JkSt/Yq WTPA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=nGEnddA9Lx0x5p19ENmH6Kv0ucpN+EUAeZhl2izgHME=; b=kmGG4BL6qXHlOK3XTzcSmTZq44uy4n7TlROE6GGD/6n7bqrbwkjaRmeweODY4fC2uk bhnurtSBRzyW0zut15UOGJKqISg3p/zUm7XzPqajRKfTx7MVtBrnv9XPthg4Q8HfxQ4N Yw/+tt8DteGpG+otNg5B/Nfzoq/Tw7MCH3T+Pp4iYP+KYoYK1ka28T7Ayzob7dFTggJD G1HCj2NaWjE5JsbmRTBYM3WXmx+eLOFfEn9BPauRZk9CSqS/ix69oh6AwODqHgyLoMCD YAFW/ZCop23iUyN+l2Gjiuv4IO4o741ITcRkkRolvbSCTxvKOgbIPnrZWyYmapAs2UNJ 39jw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXNLzrSCKbFr6FB4YDkXWeDJAPpT2DTJiFMMM3r4T+5gNWjs2lV 0CrdPMdJ8RL2CTTg5cECIh6PaCa3 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwLlhkcQZvsuMUo86Glp/JAORpmPpXE8N90C1h3Iv915nBFglcjDvuQtNnjYX3olOB4Q+K7Dw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:e443:: with SMTP id t3mr15326393wrm.257.1554223736985; Tue, 02 Apr 2019 09:48:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.43.146] ([92.184.101.240]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id w11sm39652431wre.15.2019.04.02.09.48.55 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 02 Apr 2019 09:48:56 -0700 (PDT) To: "Dana L. Coe" , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion , Melvin Carvalho References: <201904010030.34825.luke@dashjr.org> From: Aymeric Vitte Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2019 18:48:55 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1EF9017E410CF12F9406B9DF" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 03 Apr 2019 00:09:25 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Softfork proposal for minimum price of $50k USD/BTC X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2019 16:49:00 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1EF9017E410CF12F9406B9DF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Right and everybody knows that Tether is the most clever sidechain ever invented far more sophisticated than lightning, which makes me think that a punishment should be added in the proposal for the cheater advertising a price < 50 k (or 100) and/or selling before 1-3 years (tbd) so all his coins go to the Bitcoin Mediator, a new notion here to sustain the community (I modestly apply for the position) Le 01/04/2019 à 13:50, Dana L. Coe via bitcoin-dev a écrit : > I suggest in the spirit of the times that we not use USD as the > reference, but USDT. > > Everyone knows Tethers are much more flexible in tracking the true > value of the US dollar. > > Dana > >> On Apr 1, 2019, at 7:22 PM, Melvin Carvalho via bitcoin-dev >> > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, 1 Apr 2019 at 02:32, Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev >> > > wrote: >> >> Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for >> unreasonably >> low prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even >> driven the >> price down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much >> more than >> that, and there is widespread support for higher prices. >> >> In light of this, I have written and implemented two BIPs: one to >> add a >> signed price field to Bitcoin transactions, and the other to >> softfork a >> minimum price of $50k USD/BTC a year from today. >> >> The BIPs are here, as well as included at the bottom of this >> email for >> convenience: >> https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-usdprice.mediawiki >> https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-softfork-50k-price.mediawiki >> >> A reference implementation is here: >> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.17.1...luke-jr:softfork_50k >> >> Please review ASAP so we can get these deployed in Bitcoin Core >> v0.18. >> >> >> This seems a little arbitrary. Ask yourself, "Why the USD?". Yes, >> it is the dominant currency now, but in 2, 6, 10, 14 years? Who knows. >> >> You could make equally an argument to denominate in euros. Or a >> basket of currencies, or even the Bancor. >> >> However the wider question is why even denominate in fiat at all? >> >> I suggest denominating the minimum value in satoshsis themselves, >> which would be a negligable upgrade to the network. >> >> >> Luke >> >> >> 
>>       BIP: ?
>>       Layer: Applications
>>       Title: Signed USD Price Indicator
>>       Author: Luke Dashjr >     >
>>       Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
>>       Comments-URI:
>>     https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-????
>>       Status: Draft
>>       Type: Standards Track
>>       Created: 2019-04-01
>>       License: BSD-2-Clause
>>
>> >> ==Abstract== >> >> This BIP proposes a method to explicitly specify and sign the >> USD/BTC price >> for transactions. >> >> ==Copyright== >> >> This BIP is licensed under the BSD 2-clause license. >> >> ==Motivation== >> >> Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for >> unreasonably low >> prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even >> driven the price >> down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than >> that, and >> there is widespread support for higher prices. >> >> This problem can be fixed by setting a global minimum price for >> bitcoins. >> Unfortunately, today, the consensus protocol is completely >> oblivious to the >> price bitcoins are traded at. Therefore, we must first add a >> field to Bitcoin >> transactions to indicate their price. >> >> ==Specification== >> >> ===New field and legal implication=== >> >> A new field is added to Bitcoin transactions. This field, if >> present, must >> represent the honest and true USD/BTC rate used for the >> transaction. By >> signing the transaction, the sender legally affirms this is the >> valuation of >> bitcoins used for the transaction. >> >> For the avoidance of doubt: when the transaction is valued in a >> currency other >> than USD, any reasonable exchange rate may be used to come up >> with the USD >> valuation. >> >> ===Serialisation=== >> >> When serialising the transaction for any purpose, including >> signing, weight >> calculation, and so on, the output count must be incremented by >> one. Prior to >> the first real output, the following bytes must be inserted: >> >> * Constant: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 >> * A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the >> inserted data >> * Constant: 6a 04 55 53 44 24 >> * A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the >> inserted data >> * The USD/BTC rate used for the transaction, in standard signed >> integer >> serialisation, with all leading zeros removed (except as >> necessary to >> preserve the sign bit). >> >> ==Backwards compatibility== >> >> ===Consensus=== >> >> The new price field is serialised as a dummy output, with a value >> of zero, and >> a scriptPubKey that begins with OP_RETURN (6a). Existing nodes >> will ignore >> this dummy output, and the leading OP_RETURN in the scriptPubKey >> ensures it >> is never considered spendable. >> >> Therefore, current nodes will ignore the new field entirely, and >> accept >> transactions using it. >> >> ===Wallets=== >> >> Existing wallets do not typically generate price indicators as >> specified. >> Under this BIP, this absence of the field is perfectly acceptable. >> >> ==Reference implementation== >> >> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.17.1...luke-jr:usd_price_tx_field >> >> 
>>       BIP: ?
>>       Layer: Consensus (soft fork)
>>       Title: $50k USD/BTC Minimum Price
>>       Author: Luke Dashjr >     >
>>       Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
>>       Comments-URI:
>>     https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-????
>>       Status: Draft
>>       Type: Standards Track
>>       Created: 2019-04-01
>>       License: BSD-2-Clause
>>       Requires: usdprice
>>
>> >> ==Abstract== >> >> This BIP defines a minimum price of $50k USD/BTC for Bitcoin >> transactions. >> >> ==Copyright== >> >> This BIP is licensed under the BSD 2-clause license. >> >> ==Motivation== >> >> Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for >> unreasonably low >> prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even >> driven the price >> down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than >> that, and >> there is widespread support for higher prices. >> >> bip-usdprice defines a new field to indicate the price of >> transactions. Using >> this, we can softfork to require a minimum transaction price. >> >> ==Specification== >> >> Beginning with block height 622370 (expected approximately 2020 >> April 1), a >> block is reject as invalid unless all transactions it contains >> both declare a >> USD/BTC price (as defined in bip-usdprice) and specify a price >> that is at a >> minimum $50k USD/BTC. >> >> ==Backwards compatibility== >> >> As a soft fork, older nodes will continue to accept the >> blockchain without >> modification. Non-upgraded nodes, however, will not validate the >> minimum >> price requirement, and may accept invalid blocks if miners choose >> to make >> them. Since transactions not declaring a price are at this time >> still >> common-place, the softfork activation has been set a full year >> into the >> future to ensure time to upgrade both nodes and wallet software. >> >> ==Reference implementation== >> >> https://github.com/luke-jr/bitcoin/compare/usd_price_tx_field...softfork_50k >> _______________________________________________ >> bitcoin-dev mailing list >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >> >> _______________________________________________ >> bitcoin-dev mailing list >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev -- Peersm : http://www.peersm.com node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms --------------1EF9017E410CF12F9406B9DF Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Right and everybody knows that Tether is the most clever sidechain ever invented far more sophisticated than lightning, which makes me think that a punishment should be added in the proposal for the cheater advertising a price < 50 k (or 100) and/or selling before 1-3 years (tbd) so all his coins go to the Bitcoin Mediator, a new notion here to sustain the community (I modestly apply for the position)


Le 01/04/2019 à 13:50, Dana L. Coe via bitcoin-dev a écrit :
I suggest in the spirit of the times that we not use USD as the reference, but USDT.

Everyone knows Tethers are much more flexible in tracking the true value of the US dollar.

Dana

On Apr 1, 2019, at 7:22 PM, Melvin Carvalho via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:



On Mon, 1 Apr 2019 at 02:32, Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably
low prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the
price down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than
that, and there is widespread support for higher prices.

In light of this, I have written and implemented two BIPs: one to add a
signed price field to Bitcoin transactions, and the other to softfork a
minimum price of $50k USD/BTC a year from today.

The BIPs are here, as well as included at the bottom of this email for
convenience:
  https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-usdprice.mediawiki
https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-softfork-50k-price.mediawiki

A reference implementation is here:
  https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.17.1...luke-jr:softfork_50k

Please review ASAP so we can get these deployed in Bitcoin Core v0.18.

This seems a little arbitrary.  Ask yourself, "Why the USD?".  Yes, it is the dominant currency now, but in 2, 6, 10, 14 years?  Who knows.

You could make equally an argument to denominate in euros.  Or a basket of currencies, or even the Bancor.

However the wider question is why even denominate in fiat at all? 

I suggest denominating the minimum value in satoshsis themselves, which would be a negligable upgrade to the network.
 

Luke


<pre>
  BIP: ?
  Layer: Applications
  Title: Signed USD Price Indicator
  Author: Luke Dashjr <luke+bip@dashjr.org>
  Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
  Comments-URI: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-????
  Status: Draft
  Type: Standards Track
  Created: 2019-04-01
  License: BSD-2-Clause
</pre>

==Abstract==

This BIP proposes a method to explicitly specify and sign the USD/BTC price
for transactions.

==Copyright==

This BIP is licensed under the BSD 2-clause license.

==Motivation==

Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably low
prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the price
down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than that, and
there is widespread support for higher prices.

This problem can be fixed by setting a global minimum price for bitcoins.
Unfortunately, today, the consensus protocol is completely oblivious to the
price bitcoins are traded at. Therefore, we must first add a field to Bitcoin
transactions to indicate their price.

==Specification==

===New field and legal implication===

A new field is added to Bitcoin transactions. This field, if present, must
represent the honest and true USD/BTC rate used for the transaction. By
signing the transaction, the sender legally affirms this is the valuation of
bitcoins used for the transaction.

For the avoidance of doubt: when the transaction is valued in a currency other
than USD, any reasonable exchange rate may be used to come up with the USD
valuation.

===Serialisation===

When serialising the transaction for any purpose, including signing, weight
calculation, and so on, the output count must be incremented by one. Prior to
the first real output, the following bytes must be inserted:

* Constant: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
* A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the inserted data
* Constant: 6a 04 55 53 44 24
* A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the inserted data
* The USD/BTC rate used for the transaction, in standard signed integer
serialisation, with all leading zeros removed (except as necessary to
preserve the sign bit).

==Backwards compatibility==

===Consensus===

The new price field is serialised as a dummy output, with a value of zero, and
a scriptPubKey that begins with OP_RETURN (6a). Existing nodes will ignore
this dummy output, and the leading OP_RETURN in the scriptPubKey ensures it
is never considered spendable.

Therefore, current nodes will ignore the new field entirely, and accept
transactions using it.

===Wallets===

Existing wallets do not typically generate price indicators as specified.
Under this BIP, this absence of the field is perfectly acceptable.

==Reference implementation==

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.17.1...luke-jr:usd_price_tx_field

<pre>
  BIP: ?
  Layer: Consensus (soft fork)
  Title: $50k USD/BTC Minimum Price
  Author: Luke Dashjr <luke+bip@dashjr.org>
  Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
  Comments-URI: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-????
  Status: Draft
  Type: Standards Track
  Created: 2019-04-01
  License: BSD-2-Clause
  Requires: usdprice
</pre>

==Abstract==

This BIP defines a minimum price of $50k USD/BTC for Bitcoin transactions.

==Copyright==

This BIP is licensed under the BSD 2-clause license.

==Motivation==

Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably low
prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the price
down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than that, and
there is widespread support for higher prices.

bip-usdprice defines a new field to indicate the price of transactions. Using
this, we can softfork to require a minimum transaction price.

==Specification==

Beginning with block height 622370 (expected approximately 2020 April 1), a
block is reject as invalid unless all transactions it contains both declare a
USD/BTC price (as defined in bip-usdprice) and specify a price that is at a
minimum $50k USD/BTC.

==Backwards compatibility==

As a soft fork, older nodes will continue to accept the blockchain without
modification. Non-upgraded nodes, however, will not validate the minimum
price requirement, and may accept invalid blocks if miners choose to make
them. Since transactions not declaring a price are at this time still
common-place, the softfork activation has been set a full year into the
future to ensure time to upgrade both nodes and wallet software.

==Reference implementation==

https://github.com/luke-jr/bitcoin/compare/usd_price_tx_field...softfork_50k
_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev



_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


-- 
Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
--------------1EF9017E410CF12F9406B9DF--