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From: alicexbt <alicexbt@protonmail.com>
To: ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Surprisingly, Tail Emission Is Not Inflationary
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 16:38:11 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ekfFIuJImI7zARk2QOqLrSsIU96zV00ZTLLaeqymZM02wWLDKR1a0L-Ggxye08kdcKizWuVPRUztGVmFxpjtGBBprPDhEVKurGLl2leGL1M=@protonmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <eFdBAPulC6BoW5zBt30Mq4fXhnRzVENMjsfGrj1Yzbi-Z-wje21pCwEpMQ6Tc27m8LdhMN_66UX3Ze1BNAU9rsgqF-1JRV40s1QU9zSJ6js=@protonmail.com>

Sorry, I made some wrong calculations in the last email. I think the change would just be required in validation.cpp:

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/a7f3479ba3fda4c9fb29bd7080165744c02ee921/src/validation.cpp#L1472

/dev/fd0

Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

------- Original Message -------
On Sunday, July 10th, 2022 at 2:17 PM, alicexbt via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:


> Hi ZmnSCPxj,
>
> > Thus, we should instead prepare for a future where the block subsidy must be removed, possibly before the existing schedule removes it, in case a majority coalition of miner ever decides to censor particular transactions without community consensus.
> > Fortunately forcing the block subsidy to 0 is a softfork and thus easier to deploy.
>
>
> `consensus.nSubsidyHalvingInterval` for mainnet in [chainparams.cpp][1] can be decreased to 195000. This will reduce the number of halvings from 34 to 14 and subsidy will be 0 when it becomes less than 0.01 although not sure if this will be a soft fork.
>
> I doubt there will be consensus for it because all the [projections and predictability][2] about bitcoin(currency) would be affected by this change. Maybe everyone can agree with this change if most of the miners start being 'compliant' like one of the coinjoin implementation.
>
> [1]: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/chainparams.cpp#L66
> [2]: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply
>
>
> /dev/fd0
>
> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>
>
> ------- Original Message -------
> On Saturday, July 9th, 2022 at 9:59 PM, ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org wrote:
>
>
>
> > Good morning e, and list,
> >
> > > Yet you posted several links which made that specific correlation, to which I was responding.
> > >
> > > Math cannot prove how much coin is “lost”, and even if it was provable that the amount of coin lost converges to the amount produced, it is of no consequence - for the reasons I’ve already pointed out. The amount of market production has no impact on market price, just as it does not with any other good.
> > >
> > > The reason to object to perpetual issuance is the impact on censorship resistance, not on price.
> >
> > To clarify about censorship resistance and perpetual issuance ("tail emission"):
> >
> > * Suppose I have two blockchains, one with a constant block subsidy, and one which had a block subsidy but the block subsidy has become negligible or zero.
> > * Now consider a censoring miner.
> > * If the miner rejects particular transactions (i.e. "censors") the miner loses out on the fees of those transactions.
> > * Presumably, the miner does this because it gains other benefits from the censorship, economically equal or better to the earnings lost.
> > * If the blockchain had a block subsidy, then the loss the miner incurs is small relative to the total earnings of each block.
> > * If the blockchain had 0 block subsidy, then the loss the miner incurs is large relative to the total earnings of each block.
> > * Thus, in the latter situation, the external benefit the miner gains from the censorship has to be proportionately larger than in the first situation.
> >
> > Basically, the block subsidy is a market distortion: the block subsidy erodes the value of held coins to pay for the security of coins being moved.
> > But the block subsidy is still issued whether or not coins being moved are censored or not censored.
> > Thus, there is no incentive, considering only the block subsidy, to not censor coin movements.
> > Only per-transaction fees have an incentive to not censor coin movements.
> >
> > Thus, we should instead prepare for a future where the block subsidy must be removed, possibly before the existing schedule removes it, in case a majority coalition of miner ever decides to censor particular transactions without community consensus.
> > Fortunately forcing the block subsidy to 0 is a softfork and thus easier to deploy.
> >
> > Regards,
> > ZmnSCPxj
> > _______________________________________________
> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


  reply	other threads:[~2022-07-10 16:38 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 56+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-07-09 20:54 [bitcoin-dev] Surprisingly, Tail Emission Is Not Inflationary Eric Voskuil
2022-07-09 21:59 ` ZmnSCPxj
2022-07-10 14:17   ` alicexbt
2022-07-10 16:38     ` alicexbt [this message]
2022-07-10 17:29     ` Peter Todd
2022-07-10 17:27   ` Peter Todd
2022-07-10 18:12     ` vjudeu
2022-07-18 11:34     ` David A. Harding
2022-07-18 19:14       ` Erik Aronesty
2022-07-18 21:48         ` Eric Voskuil
2022-07-25 15:04         ` Erik Aronesty
2022-07-26 15:44           ` jk_14
2022-07-26 17:05             ` Erik Aronesty
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2022-08-19  5:34 vjudeu
2022-08-18 20:22 jk_14
2022-08-17 13:43 jk_14
2022-08-18 15:29 ` Breno Brito
2022-08-18 15:44 ` Billy Tetrud
2022-08-18 20:49 ` Erik Aronesty
2022-08-17  8:54 jk_14
2022-08-16 16:05 Peter
2022-08-19 17:21 ` aliashraf.btc At protonmail
2022-08-20 15:30   ` Billy Tetrud
2022-08-15 21:46 jk_14
2022-08-17 11:10 ` Erik Aronesty
2022-07-26 20:01 jk_14
2022-07-19 18:36 Peter
2022-07-20 14:35 ` Eric Voskuil
2022-07-10 17:42 Eric Voskuil
     [not found] <mailman.80287.1657405305.8511.bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
2022-07-10  7:44 ` John Tromp
2022-07-09 22:21 Peter
2022-07-09 20:53 Eric Voskuil
2022-07-09 14:57 John Tromp
2022-07-09 15:13 ` Peter Todd
2022-07-11 18:44   ` Dave Scotese
2022-07-09 12:46 Peter Todd
2022-07-09 14:26 ` Eric Voskuil
2022-07-09 15:15   ` Peter Todd
2022-07-09 15:24     ` Eric Voskuil
2022-07-09 15:31       ` Peter Todd
2022-07-09 17:43         ` naman naman
2022-07-09 17:48           ` Peter Todd
2022-07-10  6:54             ` naman naman
2022-07-10  2:10         ` Tobin Harding
2022-07-10  7:08 ` vjudeu
2022-07-11 18:25   ` Larry Ruane
2022-07-10 10:18 ` Jacob Eliosoff
2022-07-11  2:32 ` Anthony Towns
2022-07-11  6:15   ` Stefan Richter
2022-07-11 10:42     ` Giuseppe B
2022-07-11 12:56   ` Erik Aronesty
2022-07-11 23:57     ` Anthony Towns
2022-07-13 18:29       ` Zac Greenwood
2022-07-11 16:59   ` Peter Todd
2022-07-11 17:44     ` Bram Cohen
2022-07-13 14:06 ` Alfred Hodler

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