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[188.22.134.228]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-60fcb1fb06bsm6737989a12.64.2025.07.08.01.07.09 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 08 Jul 2025 01:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Jonas Nick Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2025 08:07:08 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] OP_CAT Enables Winternitz Signatures To: conduition Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com References: Content-Language: en-US From: Jonas Nick In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed X-Original-Sender: jonasdnick@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=PeCaeRTg; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jonasd.nick@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::52b as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jonasd.nick@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) > Agreed. AFAICT, the only reason we'd use WOTS+ over stock > WOTS (w/o randomizers) would be if we wanted to use a less > collision-resistant hash algo (RMD160) as the primary hash > function. When using RMD160 in WOTS+ instead of SHA256, you reduce the security level to 80 bits. Roughly speaking, while WOTS+ relies only on preimage resistance, quantum computers get a quadratic speedup finding preimages due to Grover's algorithm. A more detailed analysis of this is in [0] (see Theorem 2 and Table 1). > Would OP_HASH160 (aka rmd160(sha256(...))) be a > possible contender for the hash function here, to shrink > the witness size further while still retaining some of the > collision resistance of SHA256? I'm probably missing something, but I don't see how this would work because you can find a collision with about 2^80 queries. [0] https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/1256.pdf (This should have been link [5] in the previous email, sorry) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/f7f72e13-eaa1-4837-9ba0-4b8d1eddf160%40gmail.com.