From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [140.211.166.138]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15EA0C0037 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2023 22:35:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D274783B64 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2023 22:35:22 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp1.osuosl.org D274783B64 Authentication-Results: smtp1.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=protonmail.com header.i=@protonmail.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=protonmail3 header.b=p6IOYU8Z X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TO_EQ_FM_DIRECT_MX=2.5] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UvMGGnAn8zr6 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2023 22:35:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-0301.mail-europe.com (mail-0301.mail-europe.com [188.165.51.139]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29D5B83B3B for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2023 22:35:20 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp1.osuosl.org 29D5B83B3B DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1703284513; x=1703543713; bh=ygr55TGz3fG7qkScur479GrK0XATOPisoy5r4MHUTBQ=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=p6IOYU8ZByKMt1/8vjvnaZMgkU5OBmQbD6FkAv7immxEhBfbsfWGPTlGn/ijaVK8g Rd1Dw2YszjbnffJIwRbaDKFqjQfxp69iY3lTp1W4uHI2A7FaDN3sUvvEasCLE9t7GE 6FE3ZeS2xEsp18Fj9/abpn4phs04F0zaVxyTBVxcliSamJmhhUmvP6QIDAv3ludxCt KBANV/4xADhFwD8P/om4U6EZAGKM+3zS99UP6C/lkr66fjvUe0xm/7i3xHA/avQz5l JDYPIon6JULU1TJvX5IdzCjnKDBxaqe9Azqa+wVUk93ZFaaaMtvYzW6Q5IEmg9f8bC GfiNOgNyYQMqA== Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 22:34:52 +0000 To: alicexbt From: alicexbt Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <39ecOLU7GJPGc0zWZmGuaj-a4ANySfoRjwxoUoxP480kfRRc_fsPl9MvZDC-0vSfrO3jYraHVUyxWpcg7AFHRJkEJUERYdHZlzimOwql1j0=@protonmail.com> <2e113332-2cfd-73ec-0368-136728ceb31a@dashjr.org> Feedback-ID: 40602938:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 23 Dec 2023 10:25:40 +0000 Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Swift Activation - CTV X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 22:35:23 -0000 Hi Bitcoin Developers, I think CTV is not ready for activation yet. Although I want it to be activ= ated and use payment pools, we still have some work to do and AJ is correct= that we need to build more apps that use CTV on signet. Reasons: - Apart from a few PoCs that do not achieve anything big on mainnet, nobody= has tried to build PoC for a use case that solves real problems - There is a bounty of 0.01 BTC to 1 BTC for creating such PoCs: https://bi= pbounty.org/bounties/1e101655-bad8-5147-82f7-f03145d567af/ - Some developers think TXHASH fixes all the issues although it doesn't so = they need to be reviewed, tested and discussed - There is no clarity on activation method for CTV - Many users and developers believe timeline for activation is too aggressi= ve, we should be patient and give more time for start and delay activation = for 2 years _reardencode_ is working on something which might improve things for CTV an= d covenants in general. I have created an issue and if someone could close it with a PR that would = be helpful: https://github.com/bitcoin-inquisition/bitcoin/issues/44 I apologize if my email caused any drama although most personal attacks wer= e targeted towards people supporting CTV including me. Maybe one day we wil= l have covenants on bitcoin to improve scaling and privacy. /dev/fd0 floppy disk guy Sent with Proton Mail secure email. On Friday, December 22nd, 2023 at 1:56 AM, alicexbt via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Hi Luke, >=20 > This is not the first time I am writing this but you keep ignoring it and= threaten with URSF. Please build BIP 8 client with LOT=3DTRUE if you think= its the best way to activate and share it so that users can run it. >=20 > I had created this branch specifically for it but needed help which I did= n't get: https://github.com/xbtactivation/bitcoin/tree/bip8-ctv >=20 > Discussing trade-offs involved in different activation methods and provid= ing options to users is not an attack. >=20 > /dev/fd0 > floppy disk guy >=20 > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. >=20 >=20 > On Friday, December 22nd, 2023 at 1:05 AM, Luke Dashjr luke@dashjr.org wr= ote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > > This IS INDEED an attack on Bitcoin. It does not activate CTV - it woul= d > > (if users are fooled into using it) give MINERS the OPTION to activate > > CTV. Nobody should run this, and if it gets any traction, it would > > behoove the community to develop and run a "URSF" making blocks > > signalling for it invalid. > >=20 > > Luke > >=20 > > On 12/19/23 20:44, alicexbt via bitcoin-dev wrote: > >=20 > > > Hello World, > > >=20 > > > Note: This is not an attack on bitcoin. This is an email with some te= xt and links. Users can decide what works best for themselves. There is als= o scope for discussion about changing method or params. > > >=20 > > > I want to keep it short and no energy left. I have explored different= options for activation and this feels the safest at this point in 2023. I = have not done any magic or innovation but updated activation params. If you= agree with them, please run this client else build your own. Anyone who ca= lls this attack and do not build alternative option is an attack in itself. > > >=20 > > > It activates CTV which is simple covenant proposal and achieves what = we expect it to. It is upgradeable. I like simple things, at least to start= with. > > >=20 > > > Activation parameters: > > >=20 > > > `consensus.vDeployments[Consensus::DEPLOYMENT_COVTOOLS].nStartTime = =3D 1704067200; consensus.vDeployments[Consensus::DEPLOYMENT_COVTOOLS].nTim= eout =3D 1727740800; consensus.vDeployments[Consensus::DEPLOYMENT_COVTOOLS]= .min_activation_height =3D 874874;` > > >=20 > > > I need payment pools and it does it for me. Apart from that it enable= s vaults, congestion control etc. We have more PoCs for CTV than we had for= taproot and I understand it better. > > >=20 > > > If you agree with me, please build and run this client before 01 Jan = 2024 else we can discuss ordinals for next 5 years and activate something i= n 2028. > > >=20 > > > Cheers > > >=20 > > > /dev/fd0 > > > floppy disk guy > > >=20 > > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. > > >=20 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > bitcoin-dev mailing list > > > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >=20 > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev