From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Delivery-date: Tue, 18 Mar 2025 14:24:56 -0700 Received: from mail-oa1-f56.google.com ([209.85.160.56]) by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1tueQh-0000FX-FX for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Tue, 18 Mar 2025 14:24:56 -0700 Received: by mail-oa1-f56.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-2c22c7429f4sf4419541fac.0 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2025 14:24:55 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1742333090; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=DFN1O6W17HR3roJ8kRqlu9qvTVRuPDesbsXUpiD07puFdj+us5fE+JgE3NmXVkJoyu ULHkxoayb2w/jbjGy+981iifdOBgDYO0JClR7T21L7mPVlry4Qq3mC9o1jIj9y1z81yN MysMI84jOOFXuSlnobkv6jWvrKTKs00B0Vv7QNyYCaO7WHPlt379u741eXGI+oAFCK1F VBpo2OoIGLBz7VBYm8e/WLlqM4ZBLbEODYu54aVSLBbCmoMExg33R6raM9FAufb/rz7p IT4DmZcqVXpi73EnPhvuYmSmkuWP+Bk3t39kBVthx43J7QYM3tO0d20UwxPj0YHV0swd 2iaw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:reply-to:mime-version:feedback-id :message-id:subject:from:to:date:dkim-signature; bh=eeidKsCNKgAW0F0MkF+e5NQk5IeBTX6BNTHobAp4CYg=; fh=EguunqN3H63fbwr3MnqZPfq0STOG7/m5Vb9UYgDwC3E=; b=WNSCvYfWdJuyhNl3LwITuCgBRCcsyyiuXjGKOu4mvXkx7929BMw8wd+3ZcQBap6jhP lkKN5/LRjJMTxiScx06UD7mhS3U5Ieebr98uDtQTP9u22s/aDjArQhnKqmmwb+k45F9z UJZFVB+FE6W3OEpEeYicoDW2Ui0LbnTj0gVxXGAfKyCEB4zOiqo5c20sJbMtyBExDT6N F1aFK/yGBPgxmly3gbWCV83SP2bfgI6Ma/z3/Oy5iMmetxtKjzXuSUu06wm7VvZMWG/o j0sJFrwm+Cctbc9eOqmEX82Ikr19v3n+XPr5Q0AVqv3ztj6MuaU980IHRB3n4vRi9uKZ b4gw==; darn=gnusha.org ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@protonmail.com header.s=protonmail3 header.b="KACTdv/e"; spf=pass (google.com: domain of darosior@protonmail.com designates 79.135.106.31 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=darosior@protonmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=QUARANTINE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=protonmail.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1742333090; x=1742937890; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:reply-to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:mime-version :feedback-id:message-id:subject:from:to:date:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=eeidKsCNKgAW0F0MkF+e5NQk5IeBTX6BNTHobAp4CYg=; b=bNHPkEszCkCSGKuH6eBB6bH2UdiaiEkJnRm45qY/AJ6w8HOD/hz58q4sPnoq1NiJR1 rew8//4YcMNN+MWPfhGMBfc8NfbaiKdG0OqpRheMZa/oguvBcc6MVgfud9eGo5iP1/gy +DmjY80+TL/864lgDNhusNd6c8ityHcprI54w4js0VpDHPMlPpwIE/B12sfE8sqt92SU lDrVXxYIC7rN1JU/pPtO2T8oyxxGZlnYBOPjtPNyLMlBj/BVUWJRHLcfZ0GvGQLNLjbc pm98j/z8nVquAfCMB19VcRfzh+NcjHhXJ6M2kXCqC/As2Wr0XQNLMbzaXdu38ltI/lqC oWTw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1742333090; x=1742937890; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:reply-to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:mime-version :feedback-id:message-id:subject:from:to:date:x-beenthere :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=eeidKsCNKgAW0F0MkF+e5NQk5IeBTX6BNTHobAp4CYg=; b=hPthSFPbrfO7OpRwoz5M2Jo8DGzxmSq3AZykFPd2RgjcK8NFzTE5heY4l2lQ4AREtU RsukYRRgbYwrmB/VgRxL9r7vxcbXWGju/T0tyqLYfdodntDIOpL+MbbtZvEsg+OpunzH xa2Z+foI7zHEjngcfdPErNtmmSlShwAgG7Y5/ccsNDhjRY2Av9bsLr/z+0944Z46Jyrr diYCWPyM7oxe79PELO8zauf4gNzXMQjStm2uOwBxENzxdBKa6dqs/7qMOOmXuxwyXy4P ikE8m2aw3dxnSJ5YmzOamx54X6FnPND58qAgEkMaJc/bxL3mGe1WoHIA01gkAmFhOWWf ywtA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCWUIjINTtmBr8DOfvCdn6ejrGIR4uxNlF6VjfWzc4UwlxXYu/MIkJhYK+nZe1l+kkWu0mlIMwWXo9qL@gnusha.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy/OHKBLURT8mHsSjFZU0YhH+Qwn+tEMIK/B4Zt37FenT0++R+G IYnYPC/cc48DacNMrXxdn/+m9dTbctnuyY3/58KUt5WBdK2G9vSQ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHQQb92rRZW31g4WX4WvY+L16Gd6M//iSmQc9uSQrUPfL+66AGdHaTndYj4Og+HRvjeSvUN+A== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:5709:b0:2b6:16f7:6488 with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-2c7457a9043mr64097fac.34.1742333089576; Tue, 18 Mar 2025 14:24:49 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h=ARLLPAJsrS6OFA4zaL4U3L6hCD+58JkWiH5Ma4I8EZ82QgOLWw== Received: by 2002:a05:6870:2112:b0:2c1:52da:c80a with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-2c667034f2fls756654fac.0.-pod-prod-07-us; Tue, 18 Mar 2025 14:24:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:198b:b0:3f8:55b7:87a0 with SMTP id 5614622812f47-3fead587acfmr72044b6e.14.1742333086947; Tue, 18 Mar 2025 14:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 2002:a05:600c:1594:b0:43c:fe31:d01d with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-43d1f0cdf3ems5e9; Tue, 18 Mar 2025 07:29:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:3c8a:b0:43c:ea36:9840 with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-43d3ea11fd8mr13589195e9.22.1742308183776; Tue, 18 Mar 2025 07:29:43 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1742308183; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=jx4Hf6tvF1j0w++etssM7YEHqJvOJfr5kxEFBr3wG0w1v1HCGN8wfe6haxms1/7uKq zx6tgxTDVJuN8c8/zpE5SerAPjitpiI/iqX2jnm+mduYGj6IXITmE/7TKW17Uyvg7DqE g+qZNBMJhSxiqCoKd2nqN7v3+2i6XSg0YyuKaxCLUEsF2N5ef2E3msBIvLFHLsR0WjZR mngw7UONffBcxCYXgDVN1gvbnpLHmn5ABzcZL+uw5Y4Yb/Ix0Ep/AnPIqXhPuPJJouJN VXpB1oAyivJl3CZam9YGPMOczxhILQK5PRm5dn/MtbARcaM2K2+960Zl1+cx6oxrshMC OfVA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=mime-version:feedback-id:message-id:subject:from:to:date :dkim-signature; bh=aZpzkouDqXczSun6aT0f0qU4EnrqJep3MTrvZxLTxbI=; fh=DMP0F9ULS1guKiqimntQRCN8ZraraesEgQuVcn7F0Z0=; b=T/2PGTlhhZ3XtGTYwId3N8GharO4mpwJv+wp+EkPXzhQoJlWbwuu2AYyz5KS9MyOKO UINux3zZtxOzuaGdMCXtc+m/LqkRor8V/pzDIvsrNftI0j9tAFrZD3OYFPD81LizXpOU 2EEx/JhqGZmDyh55kE3KlYZt3yUONdJi4wZMohzbrZbhBbnXi1d71EznKVsNUJLdO0nU +IL84xqYGdfTkDFuzgC+YNSx/KkMqJ6348qqzcHOMxKZyoItAQV+KWrB4VjoPpqqmDBa Fhxgr4iPp5q4sKgc1JvNzShK78QFMvdnsEOYLl237whDy3GiWUUnnbei677CaKYEQTTd vs4Q==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@protonmail.com header.s=protonmail3 header.b="KACTdv/e"; spf=pass (google.com: domain of darosior@protonmail.com designates 79.135.106.31 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=darosior@protonmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=QUARANTINE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=protonmail.com Received: from mail-10631.protonmail.ch (mail-10631.protonmail.ch. [79.135.106.31]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5b1f17b1804b1-43d3b9b838esi992995e9.1.2025.03.18.07.29.43 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 18 Mar 2025 07:29:43 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of darosior@protonmail.com designates 79.135.106.31 as permitted sender) client-ip=79.135.106.31; Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2025 14:29:35 +0000 To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List From: "'Antoine Poinsot' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" Subject: [bitcoindev] Unbreaking testnet4 Message-ID: Feedback-ID: 7060259:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 274a184e56fb3110ad7c988394d4c4c7cd856a5d MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="b1=_AD2SSAXK8pVLN59xGh7g2lJd6Ub303qe8YSXys0pz9U" X-Original-Sender: darosior@protonmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@protonmail.com header.s=protonmail3 header.b="KACTdv/e"; spf=pass (google.com: domain of darosior@protonmail.com designates 79.135.106.31 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=darosior@protonmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=QUARANTINE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=protonmail.com X-Original-From: Antoine Poinsot Reply-To: Antoine Poinsot Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --b1=_AD2SSAXK8pVLN59xGh7g2lJd6Ub303qe8YSXys0pz9U Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Testnet4 was rolled out a year ago to address the shortcomings of testnet3.= One of those shortcomings was the difficulty reset creating havoc. [0] In = spite of this a similar rule was adopted for testnet4. [1] As a result, tes= tnet4 is similarly creating havoc. [2] The goal of testnet is to mimic the Bitcoin mainnet. This is why it is usef= ul to have in addition to a more control testing environment such as Signet= . The given rationale for a difficulty reset was to let developers occasional= ly mine blocks on their laptop. But you cannot have your cake and eat it to= o: either the network is permissionless (PoW) or you assign identities and = privileges to some (Signet). By trying to do both at the same time testnet4= created a loophole for abuse. As a result it failed on both count: it neit= her mimics mainnet nor allows developers to mine active blocks on their lap= top. I propose to fix this by removing the difficulty reset rule from testnet4 t= hrough a flag day hard fork on 2026-01-01. I picked a date well in the futu= re to minimize disruption. This leaves enough time for a patch to be review= ed, merged, included in the next major Bitcoin Core release, backported to = previous releases and adopted by the infrastructure running on testnet4. Th= at should be enough for a test network. Let me know what you think, Antoine [0] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CADL_X_eXjbRFROuJU0b336vPVy5Q2RJvhcx64= NSNPH-3fDCUfw@mail.gmail.com [1] https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0094.mediawiki#rule-spe= cification [2] [https://fork.observer](https://fork.observer/) - pick the network on t= he top right corner --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= hU75DurC5XToqizyA-vOKmVtmzd3uZGDKOyXuE_ogE6eQ8tPCrvX__S08fG_nrW5CjH6IUx7EPr= q8KwM5KFy9ltbFBJZQCHR2ThoimRbMqU%3D%40protonmail.com. --b1=_AD2SSAXK8pVLN59xGh7g2lJd6Ub303qe8YSXys0pz9U Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

Testn= et4 was rolled out a year ago to address the shortcomings of testnet3. One of those shortcomings was the difficulty reset creating havoc. [0] In=20 spite of this a similar rule was adopted for testnet4. [1] As a result,=20 testnet4 is similarly creating havoc. [2]

The goal of testnet is=20 to mimic the Bitcoin mainnet. This is why it is useful to have in=20 addition to a more control testing environment such as Signet.

The given rationale for a difficulty reset was to let developers=20 occasionally mine blocks on their laptop. But you cannot have your cake=20 and eat it too: either the network is permissionless (PoW) or you assign identities and privileges to some (Signet). By trying to do both at the same time testnet4 created a loophole for abuse. As a result it failed=20 on both count: it neither mimics mainnet nor allows developers to mine=20 active blocks on their laptop.

I propose to fix this by removing=20 the difficulty reset rule from testnet4 through a flag day hard fork on=20 2026-01-01. I picked a date well in the future to minimize disruption.=20 This leaves enough time for a patch to be reviewed, merged, included in=20 the next major Bitcoin Core release, backported to previous releases and adopted by the infrastructure running on testnet4. That should be=20 enough for a test network.
=20
=20
=20

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoind= ev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= hU75DurC5XToqizyA-vOKmVtmzd3uZGDKOyXuE_ogE6eQ8tPCrvX__S08fG_nrW5CjH6IUx7EPr= q8KwM5KFy9ltbFBJZQCHR2ThoimRbMqU%3D%40protonmail.com.
--b1=_AD2SSAXK8pVLN59xGh7g2lJd6Ub303qe8YSXys0pz9U--