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From: ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com>
To: LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH <willtech@live.com.au>
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2021 09:32:18 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <lQzKUb3esyrfDpI7iAVpOBcpriqEgyPI305Ck08zMrcf8MDlWCn6bwccqgeUghcri2a80b1P4ys_y-W0wubvVpvbihKVUPMJUlYw73ZOl7E=@protonmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <PS2P216MB09140E189C0873B4232F54359D6A9@PS2P216MB0914.KORP216.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Good morning,

> Good afternoon,
>
> That is not desirable since yourself and I cannot prove the property of the UTXO when it is further spent unless we can ourselves scrutinize it.

What property *needs* to be proven in the first place?

I suspect you are riding too much on your preferences and losing sight of the end goal I am pointing at here.
If your goal is to promote something you prefer (which you selected for other reasons) then the conclusion will be different.

I already laid out the necessary goal that I consider as necessary:

> The entire point of a public blockchain is to prevent uncontrolled forgery of the coin.

Given the above, it is not *necessary* to prove *any* property of *any* UTXO other than the property *this UTXO does not create more coins than what was designed*.
The exact value of that coin, the public key of that coin, *when* the coin was spent and for *what* purpose are not *necessary*, the only thing necessary to prove is that inputs = outputs + fee.
Indeed, the exact values of "inputs" and "outputs" and "fee" are also not needed to be verifiable, only the simple fact "input = outputs + fee" needs to be verifiable (which is why homomorphic encryptions of input, output, and fee are acceptable solutions to this goal).
It is immaterial if you or I *can* or *cannot* prove any *other* property, if the goal is only to prevent uncontrolled forgery.

If your definition of "fraud" is broader, then please lay it out explicitly.
As well, take note that as I understand it, this is largely the primary problem of cryptocurrencies that existed long before Bitcoin did; it is helpful to remember that Chaumian banks and various forms of e-cash existed before Bitcoin.

Regards,
ZmnSCPxj


  reply	other threads:[~2021-03-17  9:32 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 36+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-02-24  3:23 [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
2021-02-27 16:14 ` Jeremy
2021-02-28 11:36   ` LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
2021-02-28 13:07     ` Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces
2021-03-01  1:34       ` LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
2021-03-01 22:37         ` Eric Voskuil
2021-03-02  1:16           ` Daniel Edgecumbe
2021-03-03  3:06             ` LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
2021-03-03 11:58               ` eric
2021-03-03 16:30                 ` micaroni
2021-03-03 14:49               ` Erik Aronesty
2021-03-04  5:06                 ` LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
2021-03-05 14:04                   ` Ryan Grant
2021-03-10  6:34                     ` LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
2021-03-11  0:47                       ` Keagan McClelland
2021-03-12 13:04                         ` R E Broadley
2021-03-12 22:30                           ` Eric Voskuil
2021-03-14 10:13                             ` LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
2021-03-14 18:41                               ` Aymeric Vitte
2021-03-17  4:19                                 ` ZmnSCPxj
2021-03-17  5:46                                   ` LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
2021-03-17  7:14                                     ` Eric Voskuil
2021-03-02 11:56           ` Chris Belcher
2021-03-03 11:22             ` LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
2021-03-16  2:11               ` ZmnSCPxj
2021-03-16 11:39                 ` DA Williamson
2021-03-17  4:11                   ` ZmnSCPxj
2021-03-17  8:13                     ` LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
2021-03-17  9:32                       ` ZmnSCPxj [this message]
2021-03-18  1:10                         ` DA Williamson
2021-03-03  2:54           ` LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
2021-03-03 11:55             ` eric
2021-03-04  4:53               ` LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
2021-03-03 14:32             ` Thomas Hartman
2021-03-04  5:05               ` LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
     [not found] <SL2P216MB008922741210CC853A51A5A19D979@SL2P216MB0089.KORP216.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
2021-03-04  7:46 ` Eric Voskuil

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