From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <robinlinus@protonmail.com> Received: from whitealder.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [140.211.166.138]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 395FBC077D for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Sat, 18 Jan 2020 08:21:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whitealder.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E27C86838 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Sat, 18 Jan 2020 08:21:44 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org Received: from whitealder.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TFjtDfESPIaa for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Sat, 18 Jan 2020 08:21:41 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-40132.protonmail.ch (mail-40132.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.132]) by whitealder.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38CA98680C for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Sat, 18 Jan 2020 08:21:41 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 08:21:36 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=default; t=1579335698; bh=FS1rER9lnCMBw4p2uqiOcVg5FIb1xTnYKjDZbGGRXLw=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From; b=aK3Xvml/oM7fKPZ7GCKttAD/xQjOylJ4ziNo1Rctzi/ZMej9zhq1A3A4I2RN4OThF R4KmhJc8KCk3CzLY9PJ1eQYHxjoPSQB/xfz4pxyqc9Qlo19PVcpiJ3VW//1OaumC7W M+YdvvZUsEi4Zwt3twwTGrdJpO1wOnLsrc0G1QBU= To: ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com> From: Robin Linus <robinlinus@protonmail.com> Reply-To: Robin Linus <robinlinus@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <nFmYwRlcPEVdyxh35Rn8WgbP15JKjj9TqMss3nFXohUDH_YHOhTVfnmyjMGojZWaTHJV9HiGzw8KoGYi3pDz5Ne0FaBIEfnstPfUsW1fqr0=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: <lUnYaQ3Ubk82XnFs9TFXpsjzPGqS7jAGWJNIqOPKmchkAGANZ5JmrErRs_29HVNdm_KlMXuP6l45TYBglItGDZ1Szefz7FazxuBG52lOprQ=@protonmail.com> References: <kAPCabG_c_AiGFYny48dO7ZT-MUgINLLoiKdzElSN8IrRej9szT3t9s0FvAHihraSo0CftPwFjU_pxvKuu9SziIJFt2JZxO3rdpS3-CMKzg=@protonmail.com> <ILtIOT_2wq-ld0mk5kPev5mw8RQD6pgzSF_EPuY1PE-mdsy8eJqsCaSU-zIyNZw-4W4p5JtLJs5d451PnHvQly-3V1q225bKmdanMZVOmGE=@protonmail.com> <0RSAH-PjblJV6Q7TGosFHAEdc9QGauCQ_knCzMwcoGdW4Qt49ts-egDkIwM-X_f0RjsPMquwdnmB6spunH379ICEAJQgUH7R1SE8CuZs7pI=@protonmail.com> <6JaReZbjL3U0QrirtiCdgk107cNmQHiLbbJIDctf8uGUiqJOLvZwRLLPUQXAjzfAqRQBpaqtytcKhq1hvtSDwwaKGthwy40SWHDRnTpBkJA=@protonmail.com> <6pcznun9_VnOIV7D28YeCiWqSLtPnN7syJvgGVp_VIo_DAZyp2mDYZQxg6IT5dJagroU-TKgUUjLrJm12TlbhLCzwjftY6_OhIB3ej6o44E=@protonmail.com> <beLVDOWDR2iV7hnmLpR4bBal2QWxAYqayzw8r9CRc5afhyqZjGIQZQZEerwIIXcmRC9KFigFDFu5_CU4vxoeLFxhNrDGUaZy44_JOs3asmk=@protonmail.com> <utxb-_hCi1ABBK86Z5qAkOH0q6RiyiAg1UXzCxgy1usYS2iVZjwIdXjEfnXXenqkMVtJ8omdyUw9kf9BTQXghTnWSvOoTqO7m3SMUPZURR0=@protonmail.com> <lUnYaQ3Ubk82XnFs9TFXpsjzPGqS7jAGWJNIqOPKmchkAGANZ5JmrErRs_29HVNdm_KlMXuP6l45TYBglItGDZ1Szefz7FazxuBG52lOprQ=@protonmail.com> Feedback-ID: 6FfHo99INKExF0tkDkemTyDa-LNBAaNSuYGo9F4rOzppmymRaL_liHzoQTtSnq1Ib2NLN4047Io_xKQzk5eD1w==:Ext:ProtonMail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 14:39:33 +0000 Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Coins: A trustless sidechain protocol X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 08:21:44 -0000 Goog morning ZmnSCPxj, > Unless of course you propose to have the sidechain issue its own coin= , in which case it is not much more than an altcoin. Okay, call it an altcoin consensus mechanism. Because sidechains do have to= issue their own coins. Still, I am not proposing independent altcoins. Bitcoin is the only unit of= account. I am proposing bitcoin derivatives only as means of bitcoin trans= fer. Think of gold vs cash. > Still, the real-world value of the total block rewards for that altco= in will have to match the real-world value of the total block rewards of Bi= tcoin in order to have security even approaching Bitcoin. My point is that, assuming equal rewards, PoW and bitcoin-backed PoS do off= er the same level of security. So in theory, you are right. In practice, a sidechain does not need to be a= s secure as bitcoin. It requires only a sufficient user base. Thanks again for your detailed answer, -Robin