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[109.224.244.16]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5614622812f47-4021291e765si201694b6e.1.2025.04.30.07.30.35 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 30 Apr 2025 07:30:35 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pinheadmz@pm.me designates 109.224.244.16 as permitted sender) client-ip=109.224.244.16; Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2025 14:30:26 +0000 To: "bitcoindev@googlegroups.com" From: "'Matthew Zipkin' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" Subject: [bitcoindev] [meta] moving conceptual discussion for policy changes Message-ID: Feedback-ID: 134892461:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 47d0697ad6646ad87466ec24b68c7cb55e5fb2a1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="b1=_MKzUqEtSCiLehHCpc1r7mQptBP8bvRUJXznucCjM4" X-Original-Sender: pinheadmz@pm.me X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@pm.me header.s=protonmail3 header.b=R4uvWMMP; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pinheadmz@pm.me designates 109.224.244.16 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pinheadmz@pm.me; dmarc=pass (p=QUARANTINE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=pm.me X-Original-From: Matthew Zipkin Reply-To: Matthew Zipkin Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --b1=_MKzUqEtSCiLehHCpc1r7mQptBP8bvRUJXznucCjM4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The comment brigade on the OPRETURN pull requests has gotten out of hand an= d I think we should consider adding a new process step for policy changes. = The problem is that many users are not participating in the mailing list di= scussion and so the first time they hear about a policy change is on twitte= r, where it may feel like it is too late to do anything about it, and users= feel disenfranchised. The result is a brigade of comments that are fast, p= oorly thought out, uninformed, and repetitive. [https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32359](https://github.com/bitcoin/= bitcoin/pull/32359#issuecomment-2839926151) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32381 meta: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/meta/discussions/18 It might still be possible to try this for OPRETURN policy or if not, I'd r= eally like to try this the next time a policy change or other controversial= code change comes up -- anything where "concept ACK" is not a sufficient t= echnical pull request review comment: What I think we need is a second step between the mailing list and the pull= request. GitHub "discussions" are probably the best format for this, eithe= r in bitcoin-core/meta or bitcoin/bitcoin. Taking a hint from Russ' comment in /meta#18, the discussion could be opene= d with position statements listing all the pro's and con's and most importa= ntly, FAQs and busting myths like "bigger opreturns make it harder to run a= full node". The discussion should actually probably have a click bait title, so the lin= k burns through twitter like wildfire. The whole point is to attract commun= ity members to a source of INFORMATION. And then, after a weekend when the social media storm has rolled over, a ni= ce quiet mature pull request review might be possible. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= ni6KOcP4nfh6qeB7hEprfzZJuOtBTK6g7rv1L3IRa2TIXq3XUX-7MWGPCHbBATaxOdgbzEQsZmJ= hId5a4BkGmRabCxSsN24JGEiR4r67D9Y%3D%40pm.me. --b1=_MKzUqEtSCiLehHCpc1r7mQptBP8bvRUJXznucCjM4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The comment brigade on the = OPRETURN pull requests has gotten out of hand and I think we should conside= r adding a new process step for policy changes. The problem is that many us= ers are not participating in the mailing list discussion and so the first t= ime they hear about a policy change is on twitter, where it may feel like i= t is too late to do anything about it, and users feel disenfranchised. The = result is a brigade of comments that are fast, poorly thought out, uninform= ed, and repetitive.

It might still be possi= ble to try this for OPRETURN policy or if not, I'd really like to try this = the next time a policy change or other controversial code change comes up -= - anything where "concept ACK" is not a sufficient technical pull request r= eview comment:

What I think we need is = a second step between the mailing list and the pull request. GitHub "discus= sions" are probably the best format for this, either in bitcoin-core/meta o= r bitcoin/bitcoin.
Taking a hint f= rom Russ' comment in /meta#18, the discussion could be opened with position= statements listing all the pro's and con's and most importantly, FAQs and = busting myths like "bigger opreturns make it harder to run a full node".

The discussion should actually probably h= ave a click bait title, so the link burns through twitter like wildfire. Th= e whole point is to attract community members to a source of INFORMATION.

And then, after a weekend when the socia= l media storm has rolled over, a nice quiet mature pull request review migh= t be possible.




=

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