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From: Pieter Wuille <bitcoin-dev@wuille.net>
To: Nighttime Satoshi <nighttimesatoshi@gmail.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Proposal: Unlocking Dust UTXOs as Miner Transaction Fees
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2025 23:48:54 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <w6yVRkZu07vMNHYp483katPNPA5nwFEx-kje8eSpjRl9S6O8rx_ViKi62XlcW2b36SF8dceUXKkBLrmrtvK7RuPd1w1y0iZ4BBP4rSleNcc=@wuille.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <62b454f8-56be-4eae-ba3e-57c53d493f3dn@googlegroups.com>

Hello,

This is not a soft fork, for two reasons:

* Coinbase transactions can only have exactly one input. I don't think there is a particularly good reason for this besides simplicity, but that is the current rule. Allowing a coinbase transaction to additionally also spend certain outputs would require a hardfork.

* The outputs being marked as dust are not allowed to be spent by miners. Changing this requires a hardfork as well. Think about it: if this was possible with a softfork, it must mean that doing what you're proposing would *already be legal* today, and thus not need this proposed change in the first place. Softforks can only outlaw formerly legal behavior.

Furthermore, I don't really see the point. The proposal requires both a coinbase txin to spend the coin, plus a signature in a separate transaction, in the same block. To pay the miner for the opportunity cost of not including normal transactions with these bytes, the fee for this OP_RETURN output should economically be priced at the block's feerate for the size of the OP_RETURN output *plus* the cost of the coinbase transaction input. Together, they are no smaller (and with witness discount, I suspect larger) than the user just spending their "dust" output, and thus the fee for using this OP_RETURN-based mechanism would be larger than the value of the dust output.

-- 
Pieter

On Saturday, March 8th, 2025 at 1:23 PM, Nighttime Satoshi <nighttimesatoshi@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear fellow Bitcoin developers,
> 
> I'm excited to share a proposal addressing a long-standing Bitcoin challenge: economically unviable dust UTXOs.

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2025-03-09  0:23 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 5+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-03-08 18:23 [bitcoindev] Proposal: Unlocking Dust UTXOs as Miner Transaction Fees Nighttime Satoshi
2025-03-08 22:13 ` Light
2025-03-08 23:15   ` Nighttime Satoshi
2025-03-08 23:48 ` Pieter Wuille [this message]
2025-03-09  1:35   ` Nighttime Satoshi

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