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[79.135.106.27]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 2adb3069b0e04-5498b0b3af3si124841e87.9.2025.03.08.15.49.00 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 08 Mar 2025 15:49:00 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of bitcoin-dev@wuille.net designates 79.135.106.27 as permitted sender) client-ip=79.135.106.27; Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2025 23:48:54 +0000 To: Nighttime Satoshi From: Pieter Wuille Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Proposal: Unlocking Dust UTXOs as Miner Transaction Fees Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <62b454f8-56be-4eae-ba3e-57c53d493f3dn@googlegroups.com> References: <62b454f8-56be-4eae-ba3e-57c53d493f3dn@googlegroups.com> Feedback-ID: 19463299:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 3ab2329680bad0d0d44e659f22de1244de34a23c MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Original-Sender: bitcoin-dev@wuille.net X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@wuille.net header.s=protonmail2 header.b=OwN5RFF6; spf=pass (google.com: domain of bitcoin-dev@wuille.net designates 79.135.106.27 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bitcoin-dev@wuille.net; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=wuille.net Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Hello, This is not a soft fork, for two reasons: * Coinbase transactions can only have exactly one input. I don't think ther= e is a particularly good reason for this besides simplicity, but that is th= e current rule. Allowing a coinbase transaction to additionally also spend = certain outputs would require a hardfork. * The outputs being marked as dust are not allowed to be spent by miners. C= hanging this requires a hardfork as well. Think about it: if this was possi= ble with a softfork, it must mean that doing what you're proposing would *a= lready be legal* today, and thus not need this proposed change in the first= place. Softforks can only outlaw formerly legal behavior. Furthermore, I don't really see the point. The proposal requires both a coi= nbase txin to spend the coin, plus a signature in a separate transaction, i= n the same block. To pay the miner for the opportunity cost of not includin= g normal transactions with these bytes, the fee for this OP_RETURN output s= hould economically be priced at the block's feerate for the size of the OP_= RETURN output *plus* the cost of the coinbase transaction input. Together, = they are no smaller (and with witness discount, I suspect larger) than the = user just spending their "dust" output, and thus the fee for using this OP_= RETURN-based mechanism would be larger than the value of the dust output. --=20 Pieter On Saturday, March 8th, 2025 at 1:23 PM, Nighttime Satoshi wrote: > Dear fellow Bitcoin developers, >=20 > I'm excited to share a proposal addressing a long-standing Bitcoin challe= nge: economically unviable dust UTXOs. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= w6yVRkZu07vMNHYp483katPNPA5nwFEx-kje8eSpjRl9S6O8rx_ViKi62XlcW2b36SF8dceUXKk= BLrmrtvK7RuPd1w1y0iZ4BBP4rSleNcc%3D%40wuille.net.